Another entry into the annals of crappy things Christians failed to think all the way through, this image declares that “Jesus loves you” and that “conditions do not apply” (emphasis mine).
As an atheist, that’s very good news. It means that Jesus loves me, and i don’t have to do a thing to enjoy that love.
Now, most Christians (at least the ones that know the Bible) would point out that God only loves believers — that unbelievers are looked upon with wrath by God… not with love.
And it’s not really enough to believe. If you believe, you’re expected to bear fruits of that belief. (If you believe and do nothing, then the party line of Christendom is that you weren’t really a believer to begin with.)
So sure, Jesus loves you… on the condition that you believe in & devote your life to him.
And in light of that, i have good news for all of you parents out there: For most, if not all, of you reading this, there isn’t a thing in the world that would separate your children from your love, no matter what they do. Your love for them is truly without condition.
Requiring your children to love, honor, and obey you in order for them to enjoy your love? Well, that would be the godly method of parenting, now wouldn’t it?
Rick,
Your post is begging me to be the “1st” comment! (sigh..) Here it goes, I was not expecting to find your personal blog today, so please, believe me, I was not looking for a good debate over my faith. If I’m reading this right, you’re saying that God requires our love and obedience in order for Him to love us, or forgive us. That is not true Rick. The bible speaks completely opposite of this. A simple example would be John 3:16. It says that God so loved the world (regardless of any condition) that he sent his son, that whoever believes is forgiven. His love came first, believing is not a condition of his love. Believing is an act of faith, accepting Christ (who was sent because God loves us) to receive everlasting life, not God’s love initially.
You’re absolutely right about how a parent loves a child regardless of any condition, but I think what your issue with is “Love vs Forgiveness”. If you read on after 3:16 it says that he did not send his son to condemn the world… and that one who does not believe has condemned himself already.
Well, those are my Christian views. I’m surprised to be the first to comment here! It’d be cool if others would join in.
-Mark
Rick, I got here by accident too, looking for your openhook plugin – two clicks. I don’t randomly comment.
Jesus loves you no matter who you are or what you believe or whether you believe in him or not. He still loves you. He’s like the kid at school that no one wants to talk to.
He reaches out his hand to you, and says, “Be my friend. I can help you code better than you ever will alone.” And you answer back, “Nah, knowing you is too much baggage; no one will talk to me. And besides I write pretty awesome code, as it is.” So you live your life, and you do write really awesome code. But then you’re 110, and dying. And you’re walking toward the light at the end of the tunnel that everyone sees. And then you see, there’s that kid again with his hand out. And you say to yourself, “Oh whatever, I can be his friend now; there’s nothing to lose.” And you take his hand, and then you suddenly realize that being his friend would have been no trouble at all. And he would have helped you code better than you ever did alone.
So i should believe in Jesus because of all of the material gains i’ll get in this life?
If there is a just god, he would see through that selfish attempt at faith with ease.
And Jesus may be loving, but he sure did supposedly speak ill of a lot of people he encountered. He even loved people so much that he’d expect them to love him so much in return, even if it means hating and leaving your own family. He loves everyone so much that he doesn’t bat an eye at the future event of all unbelievers being slaughtered at his feet.
I have no use for that sort of love.
Hi Rick,
I can understand your hurt and your pain. I can also understand your hatred for Jesus, and for anyone who would identify with Him. However, that doesn’t change our love for you, and the love that Jesus has for you.
His love is different, and much better, than what you have been expressing.
You remind me of Saul, and the hatred that he had for followers of “The Way.” However, when Saul met Jesus on the road to Damascus, things changed.
I know that you are angry right now, and writing your post is a good way of expressing yourself. Its a good way to vent, and let others know how you really feel, and what you truly believe.
My question to you is, what’s beneath your anger? If its pain, then that is also something worth talking about.
Love you!
David.
David, your first paragraph illustrates a great deal about what is wrong with the Christian worldview, or at least common evangelical training.
1) I have no “hurt and pain.” I live a happy, fulfilled life, am successful in my employment, my hobby benefits thousands, and i have an amazing family. If there is “hurt and pain” here, it’s all in your imagination, i assure you.
2) I don’t hate those who “identify with” Jesus. Most of my closest friends are Christians of various stripes, and i have a blast with them, whether we’re playing games or talking about the finer points of philosophy. Real friendship, real love, real relationships is agnostic to god-belief.
3) I don’t accept that total strangers have “love” for me, primarily because they so often like to assume certain things about my life without reason. See #1.
If you want to know what’s beneath my anger, read Atheists and Anger; Greta expresses the source of atheists’ anger so much better than i could, and i largely, perhaps completely, agree with what she said.
As for Paul on the Damascus road, well, what’s a fable supposed to prove? If Yahweh wants me to believe in him (or Mary’s out-of-wedlock child Jesus), perhaps he should appear miraculously, strike me blind, and provide other irrefutable proofs of his existence, like he supposedly did as a matter of daily operation in the days of myth & legend.
Rick,
I have to agree with you on what “culture” says and what most Christians will make people believe. What the bible really says about God’s love is that He IS love. He is just as a parent as you described a parents love for their children, and nothing can separate us from that love. When we are living a life apart from a personal relationship with Christ, we leave His house, and danger (hell/separation from heaven or whatever your view of this is) lurks outside His house. He still loves you, that is why the bible says that there is more rejoicing in heaven over one lost soul coming to know him than for the thousands already there. This doesn’t mean that He loves the new ones more than the others, but rejoices because a lost son came home. We all started there before we turned our own selfish ways and went into the world. A great parable that describes it is the one of the prodigal son in Luke 15.11-32.
Believe what you will, you have that right. In order for us to TRULY love God, he had to give us free will so that we will want to love Him, if we automatically loved him (because everyone saw Him or experienced a miraculous sign) then we would not be able to experience a True loving relationship with Him.
God knows the consenquences of being outside of His house, so He wants us back, thats all.
When you get the chance, read C.S. Lewis “Mere Christianity”. This book explains far better than I have, this is just some of my immeadiate thoughts on the subject. I pray that this has helped to see what the bible really says about the subject and possibly lead you and your family to even more happiness with a relationship with Christ. You understand more when you “Believe” Him (Not just believing His existance, but living your life as a believer, believing what He said and living a life of Love, showing love to everyone and helping those in need).
I’ve read “Mere Christianity,” but Lewis, despite his renown & genius, wasn’t exactly one to stick to what the Bible says.
As for ignorance of God being required to truly love him, well… That must then mean that no child truly loves their parent if they have met them face to face. Faith (i.e., ignorance) doesn’t make for love; it makes for bondage. Adam & Eve were not truly “free” til they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; prior to that point, they were slaves to ignorance, with no moral compass (it’d be impossible for them to know that God & his commands were “good” while the serpent & disobeying God’s commands were “evil” prior to the eating of the fruit).
Free your mind from superstition, come out from among them, and rejoice.
I am going to pray for you. (Since you would probably not believe me, I will type out the prayer.)
God, I come before you with a heart that is thankful for your goodness. I lift up the fact that you discipline me with love and seek out a continual renewing of my mind. You comfort me when I have no hope and struggle in my faith. Lord, your wisdom shames the wise. Your weakness is stronger than the greater powers of man. Thank you for using me to spread your love.
Father, I ask for you to reveal yourself clearly in Mr. Beckman’s life. God, you called me by name and you will call him as well. You knit him together perfectly in his mother’s womb. You know him as your child. You seek his heart.
Thank you for giving Mr. Beckman a powerful gift of speaking and being bold in his beliefs. God, you have blessed him with a wonderful family and a successful life. Thank you for protecting him.
But it doesn’t end there. (This in () is what God spoke to me)”You Rick have been called to preach the future coming of the Lord. You will proclaim his truth and not be ashamed. Your faith will be strong and unwavering. Your life will bleed the mercy of Jesus, and bring lost souls to his name.”
God, affirm what I have written. May he know you fully and without fear. God, you bring us to you at different times and in different seasons, but you never make mistakes. For those that seek you will not be disappointed. Father, clothe Mr. Beckman. I know that your goodness will fully dwell in him.
In your name Jesus,
Amen
I appreciate the sentiment, but i fail to see how praying publicly is in any way an endorsement of Christian belief? Did not Jesus supposedly say that when you pray, you should do so in private?
And no, by keeping it secret, i wouldn’t have disbelieved that you would pray for me. Rather, i disbelieve that anyone would actually hear your prayer; so if your goal was to be heard, then yeah, posting publicly is your only choice.
The thing is Rick you said that this is something that we havent thought through well we have thought this through and thats one reason why Jesus says go to all the world and preach the gospel because God does love you and He tells people like me and Johnnah Markley,Jeremiah Brown,Mark Hockenberry and everyone else who is is commenting on this to talk and tell people like yourself Rick that God loves you yeah you say that Jesus made mistakes even if He did Jesus was not just 100% God but 100% human but you don’t look at the big picture in the bible that Jesus died to save you man He loves you and who loves so much to just die and be riticuled but still forgive(Jesus) did I’m not trying to force my view on you but to give you an understanding of somebody who does love God and I may not know you but Jesus also says do unto others that you may do unto me what I’m trying to get at is me and everyone else commenting loves you just like Jesus does and if you dont wish to believe in our views than thats okay I am kind of going to change the topic up a bit but you say that God only loves those who believe but our founding fathers of America like George Washington were God fearing men and most of our constitution like the 1st amendment that says you have the right to freedom of religion thats something that Jesus yeah you can believe in another God or no God at all but Jesus still believes in you
“Jesus still believes in you.” Where is that in the Bible? If that’s a roundabout way of saying that no matter what, God loves me, well, that’s not in the Bible also. The exact words used to describe unbelievers is that the “wrath” (not “love”) of God abides upon them and that they are “condemned already” (by God, the judge). The Psalms use even stronger language to describe how God feels about those who don’t believe in him.
You have stated that atheists have no right to quote the Bible because we don’t believe it, but curiously, the things you’re saying aren’t found in the Bible but are the products of human sentimentality.
As for your second comment, in which you said “its [sic] proven that life only comes from life,” can you please link to a source for that statement? The subject of the origin of life is a thriving, active area of study, and i encourage you to read up on it.
However, even if it somehow is proven that life must come from previous life, that is far from proof that God exists; just as likely would be that life has always existed or was otherwise inherent in the universe. However, we know it isn’t inherent or perpetual, we know that it arose eons ago (far before the Bible’s Genesis 1 is said to have taken place), and we have a pretty good idea of how the first proteins came together, eventually resulting in the first life (on our planet).
I appreciate your concern for me, Donnie, and so i hope you can appreciate my concern for you. You’re misinformed — not just about science but about the Bible. I strongly encourage you to step away from whatever source of truth (whether it be your church, a friend, whatever) and expand your horizons a little bit. The link above — to Talk Origins — is a fantastic place to start. The world is much more beautiful, far more amazing than any of the gods of myth, including the one described by the Bible. And when you take a step back away from religion to see the world for what it truly is, you’ll never want to go back because, at that moment, you’ll have realized what it is to be free.
From hollow spirituality. From the convoluted arguments of the apologists. From the vapidity of “creation science.” From the myth that without God you are an unworthy sinner.
and another thing you say that there is no God then how do you explain the creation of the world its proven that life only comes from life so therefore there has to be a God or we can’t really be here right now
Oh, how I love comments on religion-related posts. I say, “Good on you!” I’m an atheist, too. And you make good plugins. :D
I made mediocre, barely passable plugins. But i’m glad you enjoy! ;)
And thanks for your support. Good on you as well!
Rick,
the more I read your website, the more convinced I am that you are not really an athiest, but very angry and feel that God has hurt you and let you down. I never realized that athiests are people who are just angry at God….but this makes perfect sense.
You should give Jesus your pain and hurt and he will take it from you and put joy and peace in your heart…..when I was in pain, he did the same for me. You might think that striking out at God makes it easier for you to cope, but wouldn’t you prefer true peace and joy instead ????
Is this why you created your website….as a cry for help?
It’s difficult to be angry at a being that doesn’t exist. No, rather, I am angry at the concept of religion which has been used to browbeat people into various forms of oppression throughout history.
I’m a joyful, happy, productive person. I don’t feel as though God let me know; rather, I feel as though I outgrew baseless mythology.
Of course, that doesn’t mean it isn’t really fun to make fun of such myths. Until people keep their “personal relationships with Christ” private, such “relationships” are able to be publicly ridiculed.
God hates you if your not saved — according to the bible. Did you find those verses (besides Ephesians 2 I mean)? Didn’t see any bible believers commenting on here so I hope that clears it up for you. There’s no verse that says God loves you in the present tense. But, “Smile, God loves* you.”
*everyone else thinks you’re a jerk
God does not hate sinners, he hates their sins and hopes that one day they will turn around an accept Jesus as their savior. The more you realize the love He has for you the more you want to be a better person and sin less. Don’t be confused about the history of Christianity and the history around the religion. I’m sure you’ve heard of the saying “it’s not about religion, its about Jesus,” which it truly is. I stumbled on this blog by accident. God’s love is all encompassing. Period. There was something about C.S Lewis and him not living the best life, he accepted Jesus later in his life and honestly being a christian isn’t admitting that you’re perfect, it’s admitting that you’re flawed and that you need Jesus. He died for our sins. There was another post about how he (Christ) judged others, don’t confuse judging for correcting. If someone does something wrong (for example children) you are going to correct them so they are aware of their wrong doing and don’t do it again. The pharisees criticized him because he hung around drunkards and tax collectors, because they needed the most help. He ministered to the needy. Try to read the bible again, perhaps you’ll see who Jesus really is. He is our shepherd. God’s grace has definitely poured over you because you are successful and happy, and perhaps he has a plan for you because you were compelled to write this. Best of luck in life and I pray you do find Jesus because honestly, it will be the best thing to ever happen to you, that I can promise you. There’s so much more to Jesus than you think. I know because I’m learning new stuff about him everyday. I hope you read this with kindness and not malice, I didn’t intend for this to be hateful, just informative. I’m not the confrontation type…even over the internet :) God bless you! :)
Unless you’re ignoring a good many passages in the Bible, then yes, God hates sinners.
Lohi, could you give us one verse from the bible that says anything to support what you believe? How about, for example, one verse that says God loves sinners. Just one — in the present tense — that says his love is all “encompassing.”
“God does not hate sinners.” Really? Do you read your bible or just cs Lewis? Why don’t you explain psalm 5:5 for us. How about explaining the last 2 “things” the Lord HATES in Proverbs 6:16-19.
Want to go with something in the new testament? Explain John 3:16 (past tense) in the light of John 3:36 (future and present tense). You can beleve that book or believe what you were told. As my old construction boss used to say, “It’s ok to make mistakes, just don’t be an idiot all your life.”
After reading several posts, it would seem that you (Rick) don’t believe the Bible and reject the existence of God (Jehovah). It also appears that you claim to have been a “fundamentalist” of some sort – there are many. As with political discussions between partisans, there is little accomplished by those who hope to “bring you to your senses” or whatever. Your joy seems to be finding and printing arguments against Jesus and Christianity rather than making a sincere pursuit of spiritual truth. Treasured truths shared with a committed opponent of those truths is like what Jesus called casting “pearls before swine.” Not to be offensive, but pigs value their slop more that fine jewelry and atheists value their supposed intellectual prowess in refuting biblical principles more than the truths given in the Bible. Sometimes the “same sun that melts butter hardens the clay.” The disciples were told to take the good news of salvation to people, but if they rejected it, they were to shake the dust off their shoes and take the message to the next town. You have an intimate knowledge of the Bible and the gospel. Christians who try to “win” you just give you more ammunition. The best thing they can do is leave you to God and ignore your assertions.
So I posted awhile back and I just recently stumbled back on this site. Just want to say sorry for saying that you wouldn’t believe me if I prayed for you. I know that was not a polite thing to say. Have a great day!