Jesus Christ: A Vegan?

I’m not sure why this turned up on my Google Personal Homepage as news as it was simply a blurb about a book, but I decided to check out The Lord Jesus Christ Was a Vegan. I doubt it’ll be a book I ever buy, but even the blurb is enough to make someone who knows the Bible cringe in “huh?-ness.”

This book raises many interrelated important issues in life and tries to clarify the spiritual facts and to tie the loose ends, according to the wisdom of Divine Love. The good news about Lord Christ Jesus being a vegan (a strict vegetarian), for Biblical reasons is expounded in this book so all nations can immediately convert to the Christian vegan religion of heaven; for the sake of God’s Justice that must be served on earth.

According to the Vegan Society, to be vegan is to eschew animal products and byproducts of all kinds — meat, leather, milk, eggs, honey, silk, etc.

According to the Holy Bible, Jesus sat at meat in Matthew 9:10 and 26:7 (and others). When He was hungry, He was given meat, not a tossed salad (Matthew 25:35). Jesus commanded others to be given meat. Whatever the “Christian vegan religion of heaven” is, it is certainly not based upon the truths the God of Heaven has given us.

The book indeed is a must read for all people because the entire creation including mankind has only one Savior to understand, obey, learn from and follow in order to do God’s will, to be justified of sins and to see the Kingdom of God in righteousness.

To be justified from sins, all one needs to do is believe; do vegans teach a works based salvation? That would automatically condemn them as being accursed, if true. Salvation can sometimes be difficult to articulate — even by me — which can give a false impression to those not well versed in the matter already; perhaps that’s what is happening here.

Since science also belongs to Christianity and this true faith is about universal redemption, the pages of this book discuss in detail the interests, the well-beings and the freedom of all creatures.

The Earth will be redeemed by being burnt to a crisp. No animal is said to survive this, and animals which die currently die and are simply dead. No living soul.

In Genesis 9:3, animals are compared to plants — given to us for food by the Almighty of Heaven.

Animals are food, and if you deny that, you reject the Scriptures on that point, plain and simple. First Timothy 4:1–3 plainly says that if you forbid the eating of meats, you are teaching a doctrine of devils. Can it be said that vegans are satanic? According to the word of God, yes. Does your church support this movement? Do you? Be warned: It is dangerous and should be separated from.

On second though, I may very well buy the book for further research on this movement. (As of March 2009, I still have not purchased this book and have no plans to do so at this point.)

34 thoughts on “Jesus Christ: A Vegan?

  1. Robert van de Walle says:
    Brand developer, using Universal Mind to build stunning brand identities using top-notch graphic design skills.

    Good on you, the notion that Jesus was vegan is pretty silly. He prepared and served fish on numerous occasions! Being a devout Jew, (for if he were not, that would CERTAINLY have been recorded) he also ate lamb at Passover.

    He invokes his own body and blood as signs for the new covenant!

    However, in my Bible, the verse in Timothy doesn’t spell out “meat.” It just says “foods created by God,” and we have to interpret what “foods” means.

  2. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    I should have expanded the reference to 1 Timothy 4:1-5, not just to verse 3. Here is what the Holy Bible says on the matter:

    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

    All creatures (even those declared “unclean” by Jewish Law) may be received by those who “believe and know the truth” if they pray over the food beforehand. In other words, eating meat which is “unclean” (by Jewish Law) without praying for it to be sanctified may actually be sin. That’s an interesting thought.

    But the verses plainly state that all creatures are given for food, and should not be refused.

    God bless, and thanks for the comment, Mr. van de Walle!

  3. Candleman says:

    Rick,

    While I do tend to agree with you on this post, I don’t think there is anything wrong with Christians that chooses to adopt a vegetarian diet, provided they are doing it because that is just the type of food that they like and want to eat for health reasons. I don’t think we are commanded to eat meat. Likewise, no one can make a biblical case against eating meat, as if it will make you better spiritually. The article you refer to, the person seems to being trying to use Jesus and Christianity to spread the word of vegetarianism, more so than the Gospel. With catch phrases like “supreme Creatorâ€?, “Church Unityâ€?, “the Spirituality of Animalsâ€?, I certainly wouldn’t be looking for anything enlightening coming from the book. It seems to me that some areas of the Vegan philosophy tend towards liberalism, because most became vegetarians because they are part of the “animal rightsâ€? crowd, and have bought into the lie that man and animals are of the same spiritual make up, and that it is wrong for mankind to have dominion over animals.

    However you stated: “Can it be said that vegans are satanic? According to the word of God, yes. Does your church support this movement? Do you? Be warned: It is dangerous and should be separated from.â€?

    Now are you calling any Christian who chooses to eat a vegetarian diet satanic, or are you saying that if the person is eating vegetarian and doing it as a works based system and as part of the Vegan Philosophy, that they are following a false philosophy? So it has more to do with the reasons why someone is eating vegetarian verses that they are eatting that way for health reasons or that is what they enjoy as food.

    It is interesting that you (a fundamentalist Christian) is using a verse to promote meat eating : “Animals are food, and if you deny that, you are a Bible rejecter, plain and simple. First Timothy 4:1-3 plainly says that if you forbid the eating of meats, you are teaching a doctrine of devils.â€?

    While this Christian fundamentalist organization also uses a verse from the bible to promote a vegetarian diet. I am leery of people who quote one verse and build and entire philosophy around it. Comes to close to 10 steps to everything Bill Gothardisim, for me.

    {{{Candleman}}}

  4. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    A commanded Vegan diet worked well for Adam & Eve in the garden; however, the vegan philosophy was quickly done away with the moment God killed animals for their skins in covering Adam & Eve. Vegans shun the use of animal skins as well as the meat.

    So now mankind were vegetarians. That worked well at the time. After the flood, God gave a new command/blessing/freedom and said that animals were given to mankind to eat.

    In the Jewish Law, the animals were restricted specifically to the “clean animals.”

    Under grace, we are given any creature for food, so long as we pray and ask for its sanctification.

    I have no problem with a vegetarian, and I was careful not to pick on them in my post. If a person has problem eating meats for whatever reason, fine. But the vegan philosophy is one which does command that meats are not eaten. They worship the creature and not the Creator by saying that animals are equal unto humans with equal rights and life, essentially throwing it in the face of the God who said that animals were good for food.

    Further, the vegans, at least of the site I referenced, lie about the Savior by saying He was a vegan, when such a notion is absurd. So, yes, it is logical to conclude that they have been deceived by Satan and are giving heed to devilish doctrines.

    First Corinthians 8:8 helps on the matter of vegetarianism (which doesn’t command the non-use of meats as strongly, if at all, as the vegan movement). In discussing the matter of whether it is okay to eat meat which has been sacrificed to idols, Paul mentions that whether we eat meat or not, it does not affect our standing with God. If we eat it, we are no better than if we didn’t eat it. If we don’t eat it, we are no worse than those who do eat it.

    I have no problem with a person missing out on the wonderful world of chicken and beef. But to adopt a vegan philosophy is to cease to be a Bible believer, for it records God Himself making use of animals, the Law of God calling for animal sacrifices, numerous instances of animals being used as tools (to ride, to plow, to war, etc.), countless examples of animals being used as food, a handful of instances when God condones their use as food, and much more.

    The entire picture of Jesus Christ as “the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the earth” doesn’t quite fit into the vegan worldview, yet it is essential to the Christian’s. And who would want to remove or soften the fact that the ultimate sacrificial Lamb has taken away the sins of the world? Satan.

    • Golden says:

      The devils wish list?!
      Perhaps the devils wish list is to see the son of God tortuted and nailed to a tree (as evidence that meat grows on trees unlike the garden of Eden and Heaven (eat the flesh and drink his blood as christ supposedly commanded) for the devils pleasure (devil dogs like meat and blood (dingos, hyenas, wolves)) and then to add to the devils wish list have the doctrine celebrated and used as indoctrination to make humans (Gods favorites) appear as stupid creatures easily fooled and willing to follow any doctrine as long it has the stamp holy written on the cover (that makes humans feel better and saved).
      Questioning Christian (sorry Christians aren’t supposed to question the bible doctrines especially if labeled holy).

    • Mario Ferrari says:

      “A commanded Vegan diet worked well for Adam & Eve in the garden; however, the vegan philosophy was quickly done away with the moment God killed animals for their skins in covering Adam & Eve. Vegans shun the use of animal skins as well as the meat.

      So now mankind were vegetarians. That worked well at the time. After the flood, God gave a new command/blessing/freedom and said that animals were given to mankind to eat.”

      FIRST OF ALL, WHY WOULD GOD SUDDENLY JUST CHANGE HIS MIND? IF HE WAS ALWAYS PERFECT, THAT MEANS THAT HE NEVER CHANGES HIS MIND ON ANYTHING, NOR GIVES US ANY NEW “FREEDOMS” (OR RATHER GIVE ANIMALS LESS FREEDOMS). SECOND OF ALL, WHY WOULD HE GIVE ANIMALS SOULS IF THEIR USE WAS TO BE MURDERED/EXPLOITED?

      “In the Jewish Law, the animals were restricted specifically to the ‘clean animals.'”

      ALL ANIMALS ARE NOT CLEAN, BECAUSE THEY’RE ALL EXPOSED TO DIRT AND GERMS. BESIDES, IF PEOPLE GET FOOD POISONING FROM EATING UNDERCOOKED FLESH, AND EATING OVERCOOKED FLESH IS KNOWN FOR HAVING A HIGHER RISK OF GIVING US CANCER, THAT MUST MEAN THAT OUR DIGESTIVE SYSTEMS ARE SIMPLY NOT DESIGNED TO CONSUME FLESH FROM ANY DEAD ANIMALS.

      “Under grace, we are given any creature for food, so long as we pray and ask for its sanctification.”

      DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE CAN ALSO EAT MURDER HUMANS FOR FOOD?! I GUESS SO, AS LONG AS I PRAY FOR HIS/HER SANCTIFICATION!

      “I have no problem with a vegetarian, and I was careful not to pick on them in my post. If a person has problem eating meats for whatever reason, fine. But the vegan philosophy is one which does command that meats are not eaten. They worship the creature and not the Creator by saying that animals are equal unto humans with equal rights and life, essentially throwing it in the face of the God who said that animals were good for food.”

      LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT: YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT BEING EQUAL TO SOMEONE IS THE SAME AS WORSHIPING THEM?! YEAH, SO THEN I GUESS SINCE ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL, THEY ALL WORSHIP EACH OTHER. WORSHIP IS WHEN YOU BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE IS HIGHER THAN YOU, AND THAT WE SHOULD OBEY THEM.

      “Further, the vegans, at least of the site I referenced, lie about the Savior by saying He was a vegan, when such a notion is absurd. So, yes, it is logical to conclude that they have been deceived by Satan and are giving heed to devilish doctrines.”

      DEVILISH DOCTRINES?! IT IS NOT AT ALL ABSURD TO KNOW THAT JESUS WOULD NEVER KILL OTHER INNOCENT BEINGS, WHEN HE CAN EASILY LIVE WITHOUT NEEDLESSLY CONSUMING THEIR FLESH. AND CLEARLY, YOU’VE BEEN DECEIVED BY SATAN, NOT THE VEGANS. IT’S FAR MORE LIKELY THAT YOU WOULD BE BIASED AGAINST VEGANS (SO YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH KILLING ANIMALS) THAN A VEGAN WOULD BE BIASED AGAINST NONVEGANS. THIS IS COMMON CONSCIENCE THAT EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE!

      “First Corinthians 8:8 helps on the matter of vegetarianism (which doesn’t command the non-use of meats as strongly, if at all, as the vegan movement). In discussing the matter of whether it is okay to eat meat which has been sacrificed to idols, Paul mentions that whether we eat meat or not, it does not affect our standing with God. If we eat it, we are no better than if we didn’t eat it. If we don’t eat it, we are no worse than those who do eat it.”

      WHY CAN’T YOU JUST ACCEPT THAT THE BIBLE HAS SOME CONTRADICTIONS?! IF THE BIBLE HAS HAD SO MANY TRANSLATIONS, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN AT LEAST A FEW HERETICS (LIKE YOU) WHO REWROTE THE BIBLE IN ACCORDANCE TO THEIR OWN CONVENIENCES, SO THAT THEY COULD EAT FLESH.

      “I have no problem with a person missing out on the wonderful world of chicken and beef. But to adopt a vegan philosophy is to cease to be a Bible believer, for it records God Himself making use of animals, the Law of God calling for animal sacrifices, numerous instances of animals being used as tools (to ride, to plow, to war, etc.), countless examples of animals being used as food, a handful of instances when God condones their use as food, and much more.”

      THE VEGAN PHILOSOPHY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT’S “ADOPTED”; WE WERE INDOCTRINATED TO BELIEVE THAT IT’S OKAY TO EAT ANIMALS, THUS, THE PHILOSOPHY WE’RE ADOPTING IS SPECIESISM, NOT VEGANISM. AND IF THE BIBLE’S OKAY WITH EATING FLESH, DOES THAT ALSO JUSTIFY OWNING SLAVES, JUST BECAUSE THE BIBLE ALSO JUSTIFIED THAT?! EPHISIANS 6:5 – “SLAVES, OBEY YOUR EARTHLY MASTERS WITH RESPECT AND FEAR, AND WITH SINCERITY OF HEART, JUST AS YOU WOULD OBEY CHRIST.” COLOSSIANS 3:22 – “SLAVES, OBEY YOUR EARTHLY MASTERS IN EVERYTHING; AND DO IT, NOT ONLY WHEN THEIR EYE IS ON YOU AND TO WIN THEIR FAVOR, BUT WITH SINCERITY OF HEART, AND WITH REVERENCE FOR THE LORD.”

      “The entire picture of Jesus Christ as “the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the earth” doesn’t quite fit into the vegan worldview, yet it is essential to the Christian’s. And who would want to remove or soften the fact that the ultimate sacrificial Lamb has taken away the sins of the world? Satan.”

      NO, JESUS ATE BREAD! MOST PEOPLE MISTOOK IT FOR A LAMB’S LEG, BUT DOES IT REALLY MAKE ANY SENSE THAT HE WOULD KILL AND EAT INNOCENT LITTLE LAMBS (WHO ARE BABIES, TOO) JUST FOR SYMBOLISM?! WHAT PART DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT “THOU SHALL NOT KILL”?! IT DOESN’T GO BY RACE, IT DOESN’T GO BY SEX, IT DOESN’T GO BY DISABILITY STATUS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT DOESN’T GO BY SPECIES, OR ELSE GOD WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN ANIMALS THE GIFT OF SENTIENCE IN THE FIRST PLACE! THE ONLY THING THAT SATAN HAS “SOFTENED UP” IS OUR OBEDIENCE TO THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. IT WAS ACTUALLY MOSTLY SATANIC AND POLYTHEISTIC TRIBES WHO WERE KNOWN FOR SACRIFICING ANIMALS, MEANING THAT THE ACT OF SACRIFICING ANIMALS IS WHAT’S SATANIC, NOT THE “ACT” OF CEASING TO SACRIFICE THEM. IT’S NOT EVEN JUST KILLING ANIMALS, BUT PEOPLE ALSO STARVE TO DEATH, BECAUSE IT TAKES FAR MORE LAND TO PRODUCE ANIMAL PRODUCTS THAN TO PRODUCE PLANT FOODS.

      BEING NONVEGAN ALSO MEANS THAT YOU VIOLATE NOT ONLY THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT, BUT ALSO THE SIXTH AND EIGHTH, BECAUSE FOR THE SIXTH, ANIMALS ARE RAPED TO PRODUCE MORE BABIES, AND FOR THE EIGHTH, CHICKENS ARE SUPPOSED TO EAT THEIR OWN EGGS, CALVES ARE SUPPOSED TO DRINK THEIR MOTHER’S MILK, AND BEES SHOULD EAT THEIR OWN HONEY! BY GOING VEGAN, YOU CAN SAVE THE LIVES OF BOTH HUMANS (INCLUDING YOURSELF) AND NONHUMANS, AND IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN.

      • Rick Beckman says:
        Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

        You do realize that God commanded killing OFTEN in the Bible, that the entire basis of salvation was built on sacrifice of animals and eventually Jesus, that the Passover was dependent upon lambs’ blood on doorposts, and so on?

        The Bible is drenched in blood. If you want to believe that some original version of it was hippy or vegan-friendly, that’s fantastic — frankly it’s all myth and malarkey anyway — but if you want to assert other’s accept that, the burden is on you to provide evidence.

        Also, writing in all caps makes it seem as though you don’t even believe what you’re saying and have to yell to get your point across. It’s rude.

  5. j. godfrey says:
    consciousness only …

    to use paul’s letters as gospel and as the word of god is crazy. i know as a “roman-created bible” believer this is a new idea for you. i grew up in the bible belt and was part of the born again movement “i found it?” in the mid-70’s……. but the word of god are words of jesus, spoken directly. we don’t need a commentary. and the best one is James the righteous one. chosen jesus himself.
    to use paul as an authority is like using pat robertsen as a godman. please get real for yourself and the people around you!
    i am living in a muslim country now, who honors isa (Yahshua ha nazorean). have you ever read the koran, seriously? or any other revelation given outside the 12 tribes ?

  6. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, Mr. Godfrey; however, thanks for commenting, and thanks for reading (though, I’m not sure you did read, as your comment wasn’t exactly on topic, but…). Have a good day. :)

  7. james godfrey says:
    consciousness only …

    thank you for your response.
    it saddens me but i am not surprised by your lack of commitment to understanding. this is so simple.
    the perfect nazorean gospel as given directly by spirit baptism and his living presence is sufficient. that’s all.

    in my lifetime, raised in a bible based family(florida)…it is easy to know and feel “christians” alligence to the new testment, which puts paul as the master disciple. i grew up with this. *but i feel the difference between the perfect gospel and paul’s letters.

    and yet, anyone who studies and discerns (thru his grace) will see that yahshua ha nazorean is the way ,the truth and the life. he is sufficient and his gospel is sufficient.

    the nazorean way is the truth and the life. as taught by the perfect one, yahshua.
    paul’s letters are his gospel and his opinion. there is a difference. we don’t need him at all. he is only for the history books.

    my christian friends refuse to “raise up” the perfection of the nazorean way of yahshua. and yet, it is taboo to say that jesus’ teaching is not complete and sufficient. it’s weird but true…

    here in the muslim world, all muslims know that the angel gabriel came to mohammed because the christians corrupted the perfect revelation of jesus.they all know that paul and the roman bible are corruptions of god’s message. this is common knowledge and the reason why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

    please simplify your walk if you can see.
    yahshua ha nazorean (jesus) is sufficient.

    i am not associated with any religion.
    but wherever the gospel is manifest , i support and celebrate.

  8. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    1) God declared that anyone who speaks contrary to His testimony does so because there is “no light in them”; certainly, that can only apply to the unsaved.

    2) Peter declares Paul’s writings to be Scripture, and thus God’s testimony. Peter, as an apostle of Jesus Christ, certainly knew what he was talking about. Jesus declared that the apostles would be led unto “all truth” by the Holy Spirit.

    3) Luke testified of Jesus Christ and authored under Spiritual inspiration the history of Christianity’s growth in the years following the Ascension. Paul’s work and teachings were a large chunk of that. Luke also bore witness to the fact that Jesus Himself called Paul and gave Him a mission.

    4) By rejecting Paul’s writings as biblical, you have shown that there is no light in you and have forfeited your place in the Book of Life.

    To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

  9. jim says:
    consciousness only …

    thank you for your response.

    our place in the book of life comes thru jesus

    i know this devotion you have to the roman-created bible is the cornerstone of your faith. i was raised with it.

    is this impossible for you to see that the testimony of god is in the perfect words and holy spirit of jesus.

    who are you betraying when you deny the completeness and perfection of jesus the nazorean ? what is this spirit?

    can you truly be honest with yourself ? and admit that you are scrambling thru the new testment to find reasons (in the words of paul,luke and peter) to continue with your roman christianity cultism. and even somehow creating a case of jusification to condemn me as an unsaved.

    personally, there is only one true testimony in the “roman new testament”. jesus the nazorean.
    if you truly study and come only under his guidance >this will make perfect truth.

    i give my devotion and praise to jesus. and understand the many voices of christian history. they are all are imperfect except jesus.

    it seems by what you say…..your christian devotion serves many masters (paul,luke,peter,….)the many voices of the roman new testament.

    * as a footnote: i responded to you rick because you seem to condemn vegans….and yet anyone who studies the history of the early followers of yahshua ha nazorean (in and around jerusalem) will discover the vegan connection. yahkov(james) the head of the jerusalem community was vegan. he was chosen by jesus himself. when paul meets with the 3 pillars in jerusalem, it is james who has the wisdom.

  10. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    i know this devotion you have to the roman-created bible is the cornerstone of your faith. i was raised with it.

    The word of God is the covernstone of faith for anyone who loves God, for it has been given a high and exalted place by God and is as eternal as He is.

    is this impossible for you to see that the testimony of god is in the perfect words and holy spirit of jesus.

    No, it is not impossible. I accept Jesus’ words without hesitation. However, a great deal of what He said, He said to a Jewish audience and was speaking about a Jewish Kingdom.

    The Jews rejected their Messiah, so God set aside His plans for them and Christ instead set up the Church, with the apostles as their foundation. Without the epistles, the Church has no Scriptures specific to it and relevant to our day and time. Again, much of what Jesus said applied distinctly to the kingdom of the Jews.

    who are you betraying when you deny the completeness and perfection of jesus the nazorean ? what is this spirit?

    It is you who have betrayed Christ (the Nazarene; “nazorean” is not a word) by your association with the satanic deception of Islam and in your denial of His holy word.

    can you truly be honest with yourself ? and admit that you are scrambling thru the new testment to find reasons (in the words of paul,luke and peter) to continue with your roman christianity cultism. and even somehow creating a case of jusification to condemn me as an unsaved.

    Your denial of God’s word seems linked to your connection with Islam and the Koran. I’d rather scramble through the Holy Bible than to pretend justification via the unholy Koran.

    personally, there is only one true testimony in the “roman new testamentâ€?. jesus the nazorean.
    if you truly study and come only under his guidance >this will make perfect truth.

    Unless you can show me where Jesus said that the apostles wouldn’t continue in truth and teaching, you are a liar and are yourself deceived. What we find in the Holy Bible is Christ setting up and training His disciples, that they be led unto all truth and would form the cornerstone of His church.

    Peter was part of the cornerstone of the Church (which the gates of Hell would not prevail against), and he declared Paul’s writings Scripture.

    Either Peter was right, or Christ made the mistake of giving authority to Peter and the other apostles to be the foundations of the Church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone.

    i give my devotion and praise to jesus. and understand the many voices of christian history. they are all are imperfect except jesus.

    And yet you are trusting the voices of Matthew, Mark, Luke (not even an apostle), and John to give you the words of Christ? Your position is inconsistent; if you cannot trust Paul, you shouldn’t be able to trust them (or any one of the Old Testament authors either).

    Luke testified of Christ in his account; are you to say that he went on to become a deceiver when he authored Acts, which recounts how Christ Himself appeared and called Paul?

    * as a footnote: i responded to you rick because you seem to condemn vegans….and yet anyone who studies the history of the early followers of yahshua ha nazorean (in and around jerusalem) will discover the vegan connection. yahkov(james) the head of the jerusalem community was vegan. he was chosen by jesus himself. when paul meets with the 3 pillars in jerusalem, it is james who has the wisdom.

    Unless you can show me scriptural evidence to support yourself, you are building on quicksand, my friend.

    Consider this your second rebuke; any further comments will be ignored, so please take your lies elsewhere.

    A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
    Titus 3:10-11

  11. j. godfrey says:

    peace be with you, rick

    i hope many many people saw your responses to our conversation.

    yahshua ha nazorean is the way, the truth and the life !

    may all beings live the kindness and wisdom of his way…

  12. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    Grace and love to you as well, Jim. May Christ be magnified.

  13. Shannon says:

    How can any of you call yourselves Christians without throwing in the notion that the destruction of life is a MAN thing, and most certainly a SIN thing. Probably you should look at Gen. 1:30, Gen. 9:1-5. Also check out Deut. 12:20. My favorite is…….”And on hearing these things, a certain Sadducee who believed not in the Holy Things of God, asked Jesus, “Tell me, please, why sayest thou, do not eat the Flesh of Animals. Were not the Beasts given unto Man as food, even as the Fruits and Herbs ye spake of?” And Jesus answered him and said, “Behold this Melon, the Fruit of the Earth.” And Jesus broke open a Watermelon and said unto the Sadducee, “See thou with thine own eyes the Good Fruit of the Soil, the Meat of Man, and see thou the Seeds within, count ye them, for one Melon maketh a hundred fold and even more. If thou sow this seed, ye do eat from the True God, for no Blood was spilled, nay, no pain nor outcry did ye hear with thy ears or see with thine eyes. The True Food of Man is from the Mother of the Earth, for She brings forth Perfect Gifts unto the Humble of the land.”

    I like to think of my Lord as all compassionate and all peaceful. He created ALL things. ALL of his creatures are sacred and should be treated as such. I am not perfect and don’t claim to be, I am however saddened by the quick and uncarig way some of us jump to justify taking of innocent lives. God please have mercy on us all.

    • Rick Beckman says:
      Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

      Uh, exactly where did you quote that from? The Scriptures record that not only did Jesus eat fish, but that God formed a covenant with Noah allowing man to eat meat; Paul reaffirms this in his epistles.

  14. gerald says:

    I can’t prove Yahshua was vegetarian but can submit evidence that suggests same. even if not, I am and always will be. Besides evidence of heart and not being able to picture Y with blood running down his cheeks excepting his own blood. Y the lamb of God in my heart I can’t see eating lamb. Of course can see him eating milk and honey, but only compassionately harvested.

    There’s evidence in mainstream bible and from non-canonical gospels, namely Ebionite Clementine homilies, Gospel of Holy 12, and Essene gospel of Peace. I now, it’s hard to prove validity and authenticity of these later two, though they do speak to the heart. certainly they are at least inspired, if not actually authentic. They are such a high vibration. read them.

    Besides, flesh eating proven to be unhealthy, and a poison is a poison regardless of dose.

    now evidence inside mainstream bible. first though, there’s no freedom FROM the law, only freedom THROUGH the law. Vicarious atonement, go kills your neighbors, believe in Yahshua (jesus) and you’re free! not hardly! that was paul’s later addition. Paul was not preaching what Y Preached, not hardly, but still was better than what Romans were practicing, and have made world ready for his return. We are forgiven, of course, but not while we willfully sin cause that’s putting Christ to open shame. it’s common sense.

    Evidence within bible. moses was prophet and lawgiver but I can’t believe, or worship a god who demands sacrifices and slaughter. either moses didn’t write the first five books or they were heavily corrupted. either way, they are the work of demons. couldn’t the new testament be altered/doctored as well? In Gospel of Holy 12- Y fed the many with grapes and bread, and melons and bread, not fish and bread. Or fish at least could be but a symbol. More- at passover/last supper, required they eat lamb in moses law, but no record of them eating lamb. Y was the lamb. Also, Y drove out moneychangers. why? because of dishonest traders and moneymaking in temple, or because they are buying and selling sacrificial animals for slaughter. I think this largely goes overlooked.

    ok, so not proof, but I didn’t promise that. But take this as evidence. Anyway even if you don’t believe Messiah was vegetarian (not vegan) harden not your hearts against ideas of plant based diet? What do you have to lose? It’s win win for all, except those who would profit off death and dig a pit for themselves. harden not your hearts. vegetarians, btw, must not judge or glorify themselves. it is for the father do glorify or not. Be open minded. study vegetarian nutrition- john mcdougall, john robbins, Colin Campbell, etc. what have you got to lose? please

  15. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    So let me get this straight…

    While most Christians can point to God’s covenant with Noah, to the countless instances of meat consumption/sacrifices throughout Scripture, and to Paul’s endorsement of eating meat as proof (not just mere evidence) that it is okay and even good to eat meat, you’re pointing to extrabiblical nonsense on the basis that it “vibrates” with you as evidence that eating meat is bad?

    No thanks, I think I’ll stick to the inspired, accepted Scriptures as they have been handed down to me.

    As for your question as to what I have to lose by becoming a vegetarian… I answer with this:

    And yes, that is lamb chop along with that steak. Certainly has my mouth waterin’!

  16. gerald says:

    if you believe the old testament was inspired word of god, then this book is contradictory within itself, right? thou shall not kill, right. Unless god masterminds the killing. don’t kill, but kill these tribes that occupy canaan. Kill these animals for sacrifice. I repeate, there is no freedom from the law, there is only freedom through the law.

    prove these other gospels that I mentioned? I agree, all works must be validated. Including the Roman Bible, as well as my favorites. Absolute proof may never be possible of any book, but evidence is. What is your proof of the Roman Bible besides having it handed down to you from generations? Know ye not that the romans chose their views from among many diverse doctrines in 3rd century. prove matthew, prove paul. all must be accepted based on belief and faith, from gospel of thomas to gospel of matthew- is this not true?

    meat eating I believe is stumbling block for many would naive otherwise relatively righteous christians of good hearts, and really it largely separates them from the kindgom, here and now. One may think the romans chose the correct books and beliefs through help of Holy Spirit but I don’t, because Yahshua proclaims that “by their fruits ye shall know them” and look at what the Romans did to suppress other views, buring the contraband scriptures. The mainstream Gospels are great though I agree. Within them even is evidence of ideas that may have been edited out. And covenant with noah- If you believe that, then eat meat, but I know that the lion shall lay with the lamb. I know that God hath given every fruit and herb bearing seed. I know there were no heart attacks in the Garden Of Paradise. Neither was there fear of death caused by killing. You think me “new age” with my talk of vibration. That’s your right. At the same time I try to be as down to earth as possible, built foursquare on a solid foundation. You know the bible is said to be the word of God and parts of it are for sure. But such statements are what’s called assertions. Can they ever be proven within their own frame of reference? Must they not ALL be taken on faith? Are we that different in our taking books on faith? More important than anything, than any book, is relationship with Elohim, God. He talks to us through our hearts as love and minds as wisdom, and as we live the light we’ve received, we shall in truth receieve more. Is this not the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

    Shalom (from nazareth of all places)

  17. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    if you believe the old testament was inspired word of god, then this book is contradictory within itself, right? thou shall not kill, right. Unless god masterminds the killing. don’t kill, but kill these tribes that occupy canaan. Kill these animals for sacrifice. I repeate, there is no freedom from the law, there is only freedom through the law.

    The Hebrew Scriptures are quite harmonious. The word translated “kill” in the commandments means “murder” — i.e., to kill without just cause. Many English translations get that right; others get it wrong. But given that God is the one sovereign over life, then yes, if He says it is okay to wipe out a tribe, then it’s not only okay, it’s a sin not to.

    prove these other gospels that I mentioned? I agree, all works must be validated. Including the Roman Bible, as well as my favorites. Absolute proof may never be possible of any book, but evidence is. What is your proof of the Roman Bible besides having it handed down to you from generations? Know ye not that the romans chose their views from among many diverse doctrines in 3rd century. prove matthew, prove paul. all must be accepted based on belief and faith, from gospel of thomas to gospel of matthew- is this not true?

    The Christian Scriptures are harmonious not only with themselves, but with the Hebrew Scriptures as well. That is the test which must be passed. Your texts seem to teach that eating meat is a sin; that doesn’t sit harmoniously with the Hebrew Scriptures, God’s covenant with Noah, and so on, and so it is evidence against your texts.

    Also, the Romans had little to do with the formation of the Christian Scriptures; the twenty-seven books of the Christian Scriptures were in common use within the churches while the Romans still persecuted them.

    meat eating I believe is stumbling block for many would naive otherwise relatively righteous christians of good hearts, and really it largely separates them from the kindgom, here and now. One may think the romans chose the correct books and beliefs through help of Holy Spirit but I don’t, because Yahshua proclaims that “by their fruits ye shall know them” and look at what the Romans did to suppress other views, buring the contraband scriptures. The mainstream Gospels are great though I agree. Within them even is evidence of ideas that may have been edited out. And covenant with noah- If you believe that, then eat meat, but I know that the lion shall lay with the lamb. I know that God hath given every fruit and herb bearing seed. I know there were no heart attacks in the Garden Of Paradise. Neither was there fear of death caused by killing. You think me “new age” with my talk of vibration. That’s your right. At the same time I try to be as down to earth as possible, built foursquare on a solid foundation. You know the bible is said to be the word of God and parts of it are for sure. But such statements are what’s called assertions. Can they ever be proven within their own frame of reference? Must they not ALL be taken on faith? Are we that different in our taking books on faith? More important than anything, than any book, is relationship with Elohim, God. He talks to us through our hearts as love and minds as wisdom, and as we live the light we’ve received, we shall in truth receieve more. Is this not the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

    It’s quite clear that you’d rather go with your intuitions, feelings, and experience rather than to submit the Scriptures, and because of it you are missing the fullness of a relationship with God which is founded upon His Word, not to mention plenty of delicious meals.

  18. gerald says:

    God created intuition. God created feelings.

    But your responses are very intelligent. I will consider all that you say.

    Still, I am not sure I will ever worship a God that was as “Yahweh” of the old testmant was, of so much death and bloodshed (though I think it was notthe true Yahweh but the prince of this world posing as such). There are too many “black holes” in the bible (where there is too much violence, etc, for my liking) and too many contradictions, or at least seeming contradictions for me to accept the bible as is. At least this way I can still worship God and have a relationship.. because I do believe in God, in my Father in heaven. As his child I can most definitely question his ways. I am a son of the living God! Halleluyah! He tells me, through intuition- be wary of accepting all that they claim to speak in my name.

    Has the bible been divinely protected from editing and alteration? Well this is a matter of faith. What more is there to say? I do try to be down to earth in all I believe and not go chasing every new ‘teacher’ or guru or whatever. I try meditate deeply on all these issues I consider of importance. Besides, in a world of starving people, even a non veg who used to be veg admitted it’s like trying to get into the house going through the roof. This is in relation to all the grain that is fed to animals that goes to waste that could be fed to the hungry, and all the water that is used in producing that grain, etc. This guy said that he was vegetarian but God let us have meat because we are too weak willed!

    Oh yeah, and lastly, I can only speak for myself, but truly in all 3 years of not eating animals and fleshmeats, I have never (not even once) had a craving or felt I was missing anything by not eating meats :) I tried to go all raw vegan and do lots of fasting, and I occasionally craved starches, especially when experiencing a lot of emotion, or when there’s not enough quality fruits, but I never craved animal muscles or viscera. To do this one must eat fruit in abudnace, and while I’m not a nutritionist, I actually do not consider it unhealthy or deficient, at least any more than standard american diet. But we are weak willed indeed, and that’s why I do acknowledge we are given eggs, dairy, starches, if we want. But that’s just my feelings, intuition, experience and personal prejudice. thanks rick for debating this. I rather enjoy it, and no hard feelings

    j

  19. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    God created intuition. God created feelings.

    Agreed, but they are not to be relied upon. The prophet Jeremiah said thus, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the Lord. … 7Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose trust is the Lord. … 9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?'” (Jeremiah 17:5, 7, 9

    If we could absolutely trust our hearts — feelings, intuitions — we would not need the Scriptures, for we would be able to absolutely interpret the revelation given to us in Creation and conscience.

    Still, I am not sure I will ever worship a God that was as “Yahweh” of the old testmant was, of so much death and bloodshed (though I think it was notthe true Yahweh but the prince of this world posing as such).

    The teaching of the Scriptures is that we have all sinned and thus all deserve death — that God would order war to wipe out certain groups is unsurprising: ultimately, we’re all going to die when He decides anyway.

    Likewise, a lot of those who died in the Hebrew Scriptures at the hands of the Israelites were not strictly “human” but were instead hybrid offspring of man and angel, unions which first appeared in Genesis 6, resulting in genetic freaks. The giants show up throughout Israel’s history, and God always has their destruction in mind. They did not bear the image of God as man does.

    There are too many “black holes” in the bible (where there is too much violence, etc, for my liking) and too many contradictions, or at least seeming contradictions for me to accept the bible as is. At least this way I can still worship God and have a relationship.. because I do believe in God, in my Father in heaven. As his child I can most definitely question his ways. I am a son of the living God! Halleluyah! He tells me, through intuition- be wary of accepting all that they claim to speak in my name.

    He does indeed tell us to test everything people claim to say, but the substance of that test has always been the Scriptures. Even the apostle Paul’s words were tested by the Bereans, and all they would have had to test his words against are the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament).

    Has the bible been divinely protected from editing and alteration? Well this is a matter of faith. What more is there to say?

    Yes, it has. Every time an earlier copy of the Scriptures is found, it substantially matches the Scriptures as we’ve had them all along. Whether this is due to “divine protection” or not, I don’t know. As a King James Onlyists a few years ago, I would have said yes. But today I believe the Scriptures have been preserved simply because they have been loved, used, and shared. The Hebrews before and the Christians afterward diligently copied the Scriptures and passed them along. There was little to be gained by knowingly altering the Scriptures — and the communities had such a high view of Scripture that if an addition or deletion were made to a copy, that copy would have fallen into disuse or been destroyed — and that there is so much “uncomfortable” material left in the Bible is testament to the fact that there wasn’t an effort to modify or distort the Word.

    I do try to be down to earth in all I believe and not go chasing every new ‘teacher’ or guru or whatever. I try meditate deeply on all these issues I consider of importance. Besides, in a world of starving people, even a non veg who used to be veg admitted it’s like trying to get into the house going through the roof. This is in relation to all the grain that is fed to animals that goes to waste that could be fed to the hungry, and all the water that is used in producing that grain, etc. This guy said that he was vegetarian but God let us have meat because we are too weak willed!

    God allowed divorce because of the hardheartedness of man’s heart, but the allowing of meat eating was not prefaced as such — indeed, God first allowed meat eating with Noah, who was upright in his ways.

    I agree, though, that the meat industry — especially in the United States — is a bit damning. As is the textile industry, plastics industry, and just about every other industry. Getting a hold of something made with fair labor is difficult — and it’s nigh impossible to buy something that wasn’t manufactured, delivered, and sold without some unfair labor practices along the way. (The delivery truck, for example, may have been assembled with parts manufactured by those who could scarcely afford to buy finished truck.)

    When presented with the hungry, early Christians would fast so that the hungry would have something to eat — their own food. The United States has changed the situation a bit — we no longer make the hungry a personal commitment but instead donate food directly to soup kitchens or food pantries, and they receive the hungry. The need is still there and just as real, though, so you’re absolutely right about that.

    I rather enjoy it, and no hard feelings

    If I ever come across as having hard feelings in the conversation, tell me. I try not to, but text can only convey so much emotion, and I tend to write rather bluntly at times. :)

    Thanks for the conversation!

  20. Scott says:

    Hi Rick, just want to give you a heads up on how the Strong’s Concordance defines the NT verses you’ve quoted with the term “meat” and exactly what that words means in context. If you do a search you won’t find anywhere that it specifically states that Christ ate fish or lamb. The only references are to “meat” and when you read the following definitions given by the strong’s concordance you will see that the term meat was used in reference to food in general.

    Strong’s Reference – 5315 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5315&t=KJV

    Strong’s Reference – 5160 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5160&t=KJV

    If I may I’d like to ask you a question. When you observe creation do you feel that it is God’s word? This is what 1 Genesis says. And if creation did sprout from the word of God that means Life sprouted from the word of God. Animals, being living creatures, have the inherent will to live which was placed their by the living God. If you make a table and I destroy your table is that right? What about destroying God’s creatures. I realize that scripture alludes to the “right” of man to eat meat but as Christ was the only created being that had the perfect connection to the creator then it stands to reason that all of the writer’s of scripture allowed personal prejudices to leak into their writing. How could it be otherwise. If Christ be the only one (I and the Father are one) that had that perfect connection then all of the writer’s did not have the same perfect connection to the Creator and therefore their writings are skewed, even if just a bit. The only way they could write God’s perfect will is if they had a perfect connection to the Creator which only Christ did. Even Paul when writing about God being a jealous God and it would be better for man to abstain from marriage makes it clear that that is just his own opinion. 1Cr 7:6 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&t=KJV#9 . These verses are all from the king james version. Opinion is rampant throughout scripture. Why did Christ not write anything down. Why did he leave it to others? Where is scripture does Christ tell anyone to write anything down other than in Revelation. Paul did make a telling statement when he told the Corinthians that the “letter killeth but the spirit giveth Life” 2Cr 3:6 – http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=the+letter+killeth&t=KJV&sf=5 . If there are forces that would seek to distract us from the truth what better way to expound deceit than through the bible which nearly all Christians consider the only word of God. IMHO when I consider the word of God creation is that Word. Looking at creation with simple childlike eyes one can see the True Laws of the Creator as God’s Word (creation/Life) can do nothing other than speak to us the Truth that fashioned it. Peace my friend.

  21. Glen says:

    I won’t spend much of my time wasted on the talk of Veganism. If one desires to do so, then great for them. I have family who does it and it’s working out great for them. But they are doing it for personal reasons, and not scriptural since they have properly understood scripture.

    We all know after the flood, God gave permission to Noah to eat animals. Priests ate some of the sacrifies for nourishment etc.

    The idea that God didn’t create the animals to ever be eaten is an old argument and sounds convincing. It’s obvious to ones who do hold to the creation account, that things were created even within us for the preparation of the fall. Paul seems to even touch on it a bit here if you consider what he’s saying:

    1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
    1Ti 4:2 through the — >insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, require abstinence from foods that God created everything nothing<—— is to be rejected. The context of this passage is two things here. Gnostics who attempted to forbid marriage, and certain foods. Paul then says everything is to be enjoyed. Get married and have all the wild crazy sex you want, and have a hamburger when you're done.
    6. So in conclusion Paul is saying that what God created was good, and is not to be rejected. So it seems God created animals (and other foods) knowing they'd be eaten, designed them to be tasty too (yay), and Paul makes it clear to reject nothing, but to give thanks to God for it.
    7. I know my Chicken stew I made from scratch tonight was delicious, and I thanked God for it.

  22. Hidden Manna says:

    I have never seen a greater display of human ignorance than this. Let me first explain that the bible is a book of symbolism and sadly the sleeping giant which is the christian church has no idea what the Bible is actually saying. “This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” Matthew 13:13. I could go on for days with examples to prove this, but I will keep this brief.

    First of all when God clothed Adam and Eve in the garden with “animal skins”, this was symbolic of their fleshly, fallen, carnal nature. If anyone believes that God would kill one of his own creatures, oh how sick of a God you praise. All animal sacrifices are symbolic of different types of fleshly sin found in the fallen nature of man. The sacrifice is the slaughter of the iniquity found within oneself. Each animal represents a different type of sin, also blood is symbolic of fervor and passion for material things. Just like other types of symbology found in the Bible i.e. the beast out of the sea, these are not literal expressions. Look at the parable of the fig tree, or the parable of the ten virgins, those with eyes to see can easily discern that these are not literal, but analogies about deeper spiritual truths. The temple, the tabernacle, and their various parts and accessories are even macrocosmic examples of the microcosm. Somebody better do some spiritual research.

    We can see as a quick example the the feeding of the four thousand Mark 8:8, afterward they were warned about the leaven of the pharisees. Jesus said, “Watch out beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.” Mark 8:15. Then “And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why are you discussing the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand? Are your hearts hardened? Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear? And do you not remember?” Mark 8:17-18. This is only one of many places where there are examples of this, some even more clear than this one. He was not even talking about bread, or fish, he was feeding them with spiritual food. ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthys) is an acronym for “Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ”, (Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr), which translates into English as “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior”. So fish means Jesus Christ, God’s son, Savior. As for bread we can see that “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.” Matthew 4:4. So Jesus Christ, God’s son, Savior, fed the multitude wit the Word of God. Very simple. Very True.

    As I said I could go on and on, but the fact is that humans operate in their own greed. No one wants to give up their juicy steak and could care less about a poor suffering animal dying for them to shove in their fat faces. As for animals having no soul, that has no basis in scripture, in fact “For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.” Ecclesiastes 3:19-20. And how dare anyone call a vegan christian a heretic because we do not want anything to suffer. The fact is if you kick a dog, it squeals, it hurts, therefore you are causing pain and are guilty of harm, the scripture declares “They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain” Isaiah 11:9.

    Sin and death came into the world because of the sin of man. We caused everything to die. The reason that animal dies in the first place is because of sin “For the wages of sin is death” Romans 6:23. Jesus Christ could not have eaten a dead animal because he would have been partaking in sin and the fallen creation, and therefor have a fallen nature himself. I has also been stated that fish is a mistranslation of “fish weed” which was a popular food for the crowd in which Christ would have been addressing, as well as far more likely. There is a hidden meaning for everything, this is why Christ says “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’ Revelation 2:17. Hidden Manna is hidden spiritual food, period. Those who think there is nothing hidden better think again, “For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.” Luke 817. “But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end.” Daniel 12:4. The things hidden are now being revealed, those with ears should hear what the spirit says to the churches.

    I pray that the power of God would open the eyes of the masses, before it is too late, amen.

  23. dandare75 says:

    Hidden Manna, beautiful and well-said comment. Thank you. I am making a copy of it for my own records.

  24. Roberta says:

    Vegans don’t worship the creature. They worship and honor God who made the creatures and mankind. That is just the reason why we don’t kill and eat animals. And the lifestyle is living the heart of most of biblical teaching about peace, compassion, love, unselfishness, kindness, ect…IT is also being thankful to God for all the food that has been given to us apart from KILLING or murdering animals. Eating meat is the most selfish and cruel practice by mankind, because the truth is man does not NEED to eat animals to survive anymore. It is gluttonous, furthrmore has not man been shown how deadly it is to eat meat and dairy products by all the diseases it incures?
    Early writers of scripture tossed out anything about living a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle.

  25. Roberta says:

    Right on Gerald, for all you say! I agree with you. So much bloodshed from a God of love and mercy? I don’t think so. What a weird philosophy.

  26. Roberta says:

    Glen you thanked God for your chicken stew…do you think the chicken thanks you and God too? You think it alright just to say, thankyou to God for eating our murdered creatures? What justification is that for stealing the life away from an animal who want s to live their lives out just like you? Who want to love their babies and families just like you? How would you like it if someone put you in a stewpot instead of eating corn?

  27. Colleen says:
    Registered Dietitian, translator of nutrition jargon, gardener, vegan, yogi, triathlete, world traveler, adventurer

    Factory farming is a disgrace and I highly doute that Jesus would approve of this. Those animals suffer tremendously, and are treated inhumanely. The bible’s main message is LOVE! Showing love and compassion to animals and all mankind is a characteristic of a loving, empathetic person….exactly what the bible teaches us. Your blog is completely erroneous!

    • Rick Beckman says:
      Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

      Which part is erroneous? I didn’t advocate for factory farming in the above post.

  28. S.M. says:

    First of all your ignorance on the most simple of terminology is enough that you should abstain from writing articles on religion.

    ‘oklah the hebrew that is translated to ‘meat’ simply means food as another has stated.

    As for peter refering to Pauls writing as ‘scriptures’, well first off there is some question as to who actually wrote 2 peter but regardless of that the fact of the mater is that at that point in time ALL writing was called scriptures, lol at you.

    God never gave Noah permission to eat flesh. He gave permission to eat reptiles eggs. The Hebrew remes refers specifically to reptiles and after saying that they could be used for food God says you cannot eat the flesh of any breathing creature that bleeds. You read the translations which have been made into english to support the veiws of Paul and his cult instead of reading the true Hebrew scriptures.

    The prophets repeatedly say that God does not require blood sacrifice and in fact dispises it (isaiah, jeremiah for example). The prophets tell us that the old testament law has been made into a lie by the lying pen of the scribes Jer 8:8.

    Jesus says loving God and others IS the law and the prophets. that means anything that you are told is the law and anything said by someone claiming to be a prophet should testify to love. Otherwise it is a FRAUD.

    Jesus warns us repeatedly that the lying scribes will lead us astray and you listen not. You claim the bible is 100% correct and diefy a BOOK. That is blasphemy and idolatry.

    Jesus did not eat fish. He did not appear to the 11 in Jeruselem. We have the testtimony of Matthew and Mark which when combined say that he showed himsself to all 11 disciples in Gallile. The stories in Luke and John are both inconsistent with Matthew and Mark and with each other. We must therefore believe the TWO who testifiy of each other to be the correct seriesof events. This also discounts the doubting Tomas story and the story of jesus cooking fish for the disciples. There is no other mention of jesus eating meat in the NT. The last supper was consitent with that of a Nazorean essene passover in time, setting and the absence of lamb. Even Pope Benedict XVI attests to this fact. The Nazorean essenes were vegan. Jesus was a Nazorean, he was not from Nazareth. Hate to burst your bubble but the city we call Nazareth didn’t exist at the time. Period.

    Paul was a great Anti-Christ and Jesus warned you about him. He said beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin/wolf. He said beware the Pharasees. HELLO! Paul. He said if anyone says they saw him in th wilderness dnt believe them. Paul says he saw Jesus in the wilderness. He didn’t even see Jesus body only a bright light that CLAIMED to be Jesus.

    I hav more to say but don’t have time now. Stop being decieved and preaching your deception to others!

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