Why the World Will End in 2015 and Other Speculation

If I were to tell you that with­in four years, bil­lions of peo­ple will die, how would you react? Con­cerned? Shocked? Or would you write me off as a crazed dooms­day prophet before I fin­ish the word “die”?

I know it sounds crazy, and I’m not even sure if I believe it or not… “Bil­lions to Die!” It’s unimaginable.

Yet that is exact­ly the impres­sion I’m get­ting late­ly. End times schol­ars, such as Irvin Bax­ter, have redou­bled their efforts to warn the pop­u­lace of the impend­ing judg­ment day.

Bax­ter in par­tic­u­lar has made it his min­istry’s goal to reach every man, woman, and child on Earth with the Gospel mes­sage with­in 2008.

I am hum­bled by his ambi­tion.1

Bil­lions. Dead. What do I do with a claim like that?

To be hon­est, I haven’t dis­missed it entire­ly. I’m not claim­ing omni­science or any oth­er kind of pre­cog­ni­tion of the future — tru­ly, only the Father knows the timeta­bles! — yet I can­not sim­ply remain will­ful­ly igno­rant of the things going on around me, things which seem to be reach­ing a fever pitch among some.

All of that said, any­thing which I add to the myr­i­ad voic­es would be mere spec­u­la­tion. Keep that in mind as you con­tin­ue reading.

I first want to take you to the Book of Daniel; this pas­sage is, if I may say, rather thick, but please stick with me.

Sev­en­ty weeks are deter­mined upon thy peo­ple and upon thy holy city, to fin­ish the trans­gres­sion, and to make an end of sins, and to make rec­on­cil­i­a­tion for iniq­ui­ty, and to bring in ever­last­ing right­eous­ness, and to seal up the vision and prophe­cy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know there­fore and under­stand, that from the going forth of the com­mand­ment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Mes­si­ah the Prince, shall be sev­en weeks, and three­score and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in trou­blous times. 26And after three­score and two weeks shall Mes­si­ah be cut off, but not or him­self: and the peo­ple of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanc­tu­ary; and the end there­of shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war des­o­la­tions are deter­mined. 27And he shall con­firm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sac­ri­fice and the obla­tion to cease, and or the over­spread­ing of abom­i­na­tions he shall make it des­o­late, even until the con­sum­ma­tion, and that deter­mined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:24–27, King James Version

My apolo­gies to my Reformed covenant the­ol­o­gy read­ers — this will prob­a­bly get a bit too dis­pen­sa­tion­al for your tastes. Con­tin­ue read­ing at your own discretion.

The first thing to keep in mind is that in this pas­sage, a “week” refers to what is some­times called a “prophet­ic week,” that is, a sev­en year peri­od. In oth­er words, “sev­en­ty weeks” would be 490 years. In verse 26, we see the mes­si­ah being cut off after 435 years (about six­ty-two weeks).

Want to see Bible prophe­cy in action? Daniel records that the Mes­si­ah would be cut off 483 years (sev­en weeks [v. 25] + six­ty-two weeks [v. 26]) after the decree to restore Jerusalem. This decree to rebuild Jerusalem came some­time in 457 BCE by Artax­erx­es I in the sev­enth year of his reign (Ezra 7:12–26). Now, 483 years after that would be 26 CE. A slight adjust­ment to that to take into account the Jew­ish use of a 360-day lunar year would instead place us in 27 CE. That is the year that Jesus Christ was very like­ly cru­ci­fied. As proph­e­sied in the Book of Daniel, the anoint­ed one was cut off right on schedule.

Mes­si­ah being cut off ful­filled six­ty-nine of Daniel’s sev­en­ty weeks. What about that last week?

In verse 26, still, we see that after the cru­ci­fix­ion, there is a “peo­ple of the prince that shall come” which will destroy Jerusalem. When was Jerusalem destroyed? That took place in 70 CE, after the mes­si­ah was cut off, just as proph­e­sied. That siege took place under the com­mand of Titus, a Roman emperor.

source, license
source, license

I do not believe Titus is the “prince who is to come” referred to in verse 26, and I’ll tell you why. In verse 27, there’s some busi­ness about a covenant which will be con­firmed by a “he.” This “he” seems to refer back to verse 26’s “prince who is to come.”

As near­ly as I can tell, Titus did not enter into a covenant rela­tion­ship with the Jews.

I believe that this prince — the prince who ruled over the Romans even as they laid siege to Jerusalem — is still in the future even today.

Some peo­ple feel that the “he” who will form the covenant refers to the mes­si­ah; how­ev­er, this covenant is very tem­po­rary — last­ing only sev­en years — while the New Covenant is an ever­last­ing covenant.

Now what will hap­pen is that this prince — who­ev­er he may be — will show up on the scene and make a covenant with the Jew­ish nation.

Daniel’s sev­en­ty weeks are not con­tin­u­ous! While the first peri­od of sev­en weeks and the sec­ond peri­od of six­ty-two weeks fol­lowed one right after the oth­er, there is an inter­val sep­a­rat­ing the six­ty-ninth from the sev­en­ti­eth week. You can eas­i­ly see this in that more than sev­en years passed between the cut­ting off of the Mes­si­ah and Jerusalem is destroyed. The gap is often called the “Church Age.” It is the peri­od described in 2 Peter 3 as the peri­od in which all of the elect are being saved. The Jews were giv­en a very spe­cif­ic timetable of sev­en­ty weeks which many felt should have been com­plet­ed by the time Peter wrote his epis­tles; many scoffers arose who mocked the Chris­tians for believ­ing in a future sec­ond advent of the mes­si­ah. The Lord is not slack con­cern­ing his promise (that “deter­mined shall be poured upon the des­o­late” [Daniel 9:27]). But the fact of the mat­ter is, we do not know how long it will take for all of the elect to come to repen­tance; our best guess­es based upon cur­rent events are just that — guess­es.

Tell me, what is it that’s going on in the world today? Take the Annapo­lis Con­fer­ence as an exam­ple. Efforts are very much under­way to bring peace between Israel and its most per­sis­tent ene­mies, and it’s entire­ly pos­si­ble that by the end of this year, a peace agree­ment will be reached, set­tling the bor­ders of Israel.

Is this the con­fir­ma­tion of the covenant men­tioned in Daniel? It’s entire­ly pos­si­ble; if the agree­ment reached has a sev­en-year timetable, then that pos­si­bil­i­ty will be a whole lot more like­ly. If it is, we’re in for one wild wide.

What kind of a ride?

Oh boy…

source, license
source, license

I’m not going to go into whether Chris­tians will be present for these events or not; frankly, I do not know. Also, I won’t get into argu­ments with those who believe we should do every­thing in our pow­er to stop these events from tak­ing place; they are proph­e­sied, and they will hap­pen. You’re free to pur­sue what­ev­er polit­i­cal inter­ests you want — includ­ing advo­cat­ing against uni­fi­ca­tion of nations in a move toward glob­al gov­ern­ment — but don’t kid your­self into think­ing you’re some­how stop­ping the apoc­a­lypse. If the apoc­a­lypse nev­er hap­pens, Jesus Christ will nev­er return to this earth in glo­ry — frankly, that is some­thing I’d be more than will­ing to endure Daniel’s sev­en­ti­eth week to enjoy.

This list is based upon the one in the Tim LaHaye Prophe­cy Study Bible2 called “Twen­ty Major Prophet­ic Events Yet to Be Ful­filled” (page 1,445).

  • Antichrist, the “prince” who con­firms the covenant in Daniel 9, sets up a one-world gov­ern­ment (Rev­e­la­tion 6:2; 13:1–8). Efforts toward this have been tak­ing place all around us, with the Unit­ed Nations, Euro­pean Union, and (pos­si­bly) impend­ing North Amer­i­can Union as evi­dence. The pas­sage in Daniel links the Antichrist with the peo­ple who destroyed Jerusalem, and we know that peo­ple to be the Romans. Antichrist’s king­dom will like­ly be a glob­al revival of the Roman Empire.
  • Antichrist estab­lish­es a sev­en-year covenant of peace with Israel (Isa­iah 28:15; Daniel 9:24–27).
  • A glob­al church is estab­lished (Rev­e­la­tion 17:1–15) which is the ulti­mate cul­mi­na­tion of thou­sands of years of idol­a­try on the part of Baby­lon. As Rome will hold polit­i­cal sway over the world, so will Baby­lon hold the world in a reli­gious stran­gle­hold. All inter­faith and ecu­meni­cal move­ments seem to be work­ing toward this, espe­cial­ly where coop­er­a­tion between the Roman Catholics (Rome) and Mus­lims (Babylon/Iraq) is concerned.
  • God’s first wave of judg­ments upon the world, known as the Sev­en Seals, results in a world war which kills twen­ty-five per­cent of the pop­u­la­tion, among oth­er things. (Rev­e­la­tion 6:1–17) Assum­ing the pop­u­la­tion of the world has reached sev­en bil­lion by then, 25% would be 1,750,000,000 peo­ple. The pas­sage actu­al­ly says “over a fourth of the earth.” Can you wrap your mind around that? I am thank­ful that I cannot.
  • Dur­ing the judg­ments of the sev­en trum­pets, a third of the remain­ing unbe­liev­ers will die (Rev­e­la­tion 8–9), among oth­er things.
  • Halfway through the Antichrist’s covenant with Israel, he betrays the Jews, break­ing the covenant and set­ting an image of him­self up in the Jews’ tem­ple, pro­claim­ing him­self to be god and demand­ing wor­ship. (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thes­sa­lo­ni­ans 2:1–8). This event is known the abom­i­na­tion of desolations.Not only are plans mov­ing for­ward to estab­lish peace of Israel, but mate­ri­als have already begun to be gath­ered for the rebuild­ing of the Jew­ish tem­ple. The Tem­ple Insti­tute has already amassed a great many of the items need­ed for tem­ple wor­ship. End times events can­not move for­ward with­out the Jews’ tem­ple. Prophe­cy is unfold­ing before our very eyes.
  • A false prophet aris­es to direct wor­ship of the Antichrist — some believe this could be a future papal father of the Roman Catholic Church — while in eco­nom­ics, the mark of the beast is estab­lished as a require­ment in order to buy and sell. All who take the mark and wor­ship the Antichrist in effect declare their antag­o­nism toward Jesus Christ.Great strides are being tak­en in eco­nom­ic tech­nol­o­gy; the mark of the beast is becom­ing increas­ing­ly plau­si­ble in ways that it nev­er before would have been. I still dis­be­lieve that the mark will be any­thing more than an actu­al mark upon the head or the hand, but the more we move toward such con­trol in eco­nom­ics is inter­est­ing indeed.
  • The sec­ond half of the sev­en­ti­eth week is known as the great tribu­la­tion, and things get even more wild than dur­ing the first three and a half years.
  • Armaged­don. The world turns against Israel (Rev­e­la­tion 16:12–16).
  • Despite all his pow­er, ulti­mate­ly the Antichrist’s polit­i­cal, eco­nom­ic, and reli­gious sys­tems are toppled.
  • Jesus returns to this earth to estab­lish his king­dom (Matthew 24:22–31; Rev­e­la­tion 19:11–21).
  • Jesus reigns for 1,000 years while Satan is bound and all his pawns are cast into the lake of fire. (Rev­e­la­tion 20:1–7).
  • The new heav­ens and the new earth are cre­at­ed and the new Jerusalem comes into view. His­to­ry has been con­sum­mat­ed. Yah­weh reigns for­ev­er. (Rev­e­la­tion 21–22).
source, license
source, license

I don’t know how soon those events are. We are told in the Scrip­tures to be awake, watch­ful of the events around us, pre­pared for the com­ing of the Lord (Rev­e­la­tion 16:15); yet we ought not to let antic­i­pa­tion of future events dis­tract from the here and now.

The con­fir­ma­tion of the covenant with Israel may take place with­in a year; it may not. Inter­est­ing­ly enough, if the covenant is con­firmed in the lat­ter half of 2008, then Armaged­don would take place in 2012 — a date some­what noto­ri­ous for its asso­ci­a­tion with end of the world ideas, notably the end of time accord­ing to the ancient Mayan cal­en­dar.

We’re also amaz­ing­ly close to my sev­enth-grade pre­dic­tion of 2015.3 Indeed, if 2008 is the year of the covenant con­fir­ma­tion, then the return of Jesus Christ would be sev­en years lat­er in 2015. Back then, I did­n’t know a bit of bib­li­cal prophe­cy; not bad for an une­d­u­cat­ed guess!

At the very least, the next few years will be inter­est­ing. Numer­ous “Real­ly Big Things” are tak­ing place in the world today, and see­ing how it all plays out isn’t some­thing you’re going to want to miss.

Fea­tured image: source, license

  1. Indeed, any believ­er liv­ing in a town full of peo­ple they’ve yet to reach out to should be hum­bled by such lofty ambi­tion. You don’t have to agree with Bax­ter’s end times relat­ed moti­va­tions, to be sure; you sim­ply need to believe the gospel enough to get it out there!
  2. Think what you will about Tim LaHaye, I have found his study Bible to be fair­ly reli­able and it con­tains a wealth of infor­ma­tion on var­i­ous top­ics relat­ed to the end times.
  3. OK, I admit that this pre­dic­tion means noth­ing and is whol­ly whim­si­cal. In my math class, the teacher gave “2015” as the answer to some math ques­tion, and for what­ev­er rea­son, as he said it, my appar­ent cog­ni­tion of the event slowed down, mak­ing it seem as if he spoke in exag­ger­at­ed slow motion. Do you remem­ber the “for­ev­er” scene from the movie Sand­lot? It was like that.

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69 responses to “Why the World Will End in 2015 and Other Speculation”

  1. old man Avatar
    old man

    I have been read­ing and eval­u­at­ing the writ­ings of prophe­cy for years. I have also not­ed that all the state­ments and dec­la­ra­tions of God are about the Jews and the world around them. I would not be sur­prised to see that the end times are the world as known then, with the Mid­dle East and Europe being the world.

    While it is nev­er good taste to under­stand how God may do his work, I can fore­see a mil­i­tary force of all Mus­lim forces along with Rus­sia pos­tured against Israel, a mete­or hit­ting the earth in the Mediter­ranean Sea affect­ing the area of Israel. The impact could destroy a mas­sive num­ber of peo­ple in that area as well as ini­ti­ate action of all tec­ton­ic plates and the vol­ca­noes around the world. Such an action would rep­re­sent the descrip­tion of most of what I read.

    My take on the anti-Christ and his deal­ings is that there is a major polit­i­cal fig­ure already on the scene. Most all of you that have been exam­in­ing prophe­cy have rec­og­nized Javier Solana, WEU and EU polit­i­cal leader as meet­ing the attrib­ut­es attrib­uted to the com­ing Anti-Christ, to include his ini­tia­tive to move to a one world gov­ern­ment. His Euro­pean Neigh­bor-hood Part­ner­ship Instru­ment (ENPI) which he is sup­port­ing with funds for nation­al improve­ment was signed by Israel, and he says the Instru­ment went into effect Jan 1, 2007; that makes the mid point June or July 2010, which coin­cides with the date he has tar­get­ed for all the mil­i­tary forces to be armed and ready; the mil­i­tary forces that agree­ment 666 gave him the author­i­ty to control.

  2. Chris Patton Avatar

    Those who have read this far might like to read more about the aster­oid strikes that are prophesied.

    Also, there is an inter­est­ing dis­cus­sion about the mul­ti­ple, par­al­lel ful­fill­ments, prophe­cies and time lines of Daniels 70 Weeks prophe­cy in Chap­ter 7 of Mys­tery of Tam­muz 17, an online book acces­si­ble form the not­ed web site or specif­i­cal­ly at : http://www.apocalypse2008-2015.com/mystery-chapter7.html .

    Hold fast to a bib­li­cal faith in these last days of witness.

  3. Senior Avatar
    Senior

    I would like to go on the record as stat­ing that the world will not end in 2015. You heard it here first.

    Peo­ple have been find­ing in the Bible rea­sons why the world was about to end for quite some time. They have always been wrong.

    A prophe­cy that is only clear in hind­sight is not a prophecy.

    1. Prescott Avatar
      Prescott

      There has nev­er, once in record­ed his­to­ry, been a sin­gle prophe­cy, a sin­gle event nor a sin­gle bit of evi­dence to come to fruition that any­thing in the Bible, Torah or Quran that exists and can stand up to any type of sci­en­tif­ic inquiry or peer review. If such evi­dence exist­ed it would be the most trea­sured and most valu­able object on earth. There are thou­sands, upon thou­sands of fake arti­facts from the Shroud of Turin on down to the pieces of the cross that total up to enough wood to build a small ship. The fact that the pre­pon­der­ance of evi­dence is well proven to be fake and the con­tin­u­ing absence of evi­dence is evi­dence of absence. 

      How­ev­er, if the world ends today I will head down to the local mega church and take pos­ses­sion of the priests Lam­borgh­i­ni and Rolls Royce.

      1. Rick Beckman Avatar

        Well said, Prescott.

  4. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Senior — If prophe­cies were 100% crys­tal clear and were of the form, “In 4092, over 4 mil­len­nia after Jesus Christ ascend­ed to Heav­en, He will return again. Star Trek will still be the best sci-fi, and the Bush & Clin­ton fam­i­lies are still vying for the White House,” it would­n’t help mat­ters any.

    For the same rea­son that Jesus spoke in para­bles, the prophe­cies of Scrip­ture have an ele­ment of mys­tery to them — not because they are inac­cu­rate (Daniel pre­dict­ed the year of Jesus’ cru­ci­fix­ion over 500 years in advance, for instance), but in order to keep the ears of the deaf stopped while those who have ears to hear will ben­e­fit from them.

    Fur­ther, as vague as some End Times prophe­cies are, there are many which are crys­tal clear — pri­mar­i­ly that Jesus Christ will return, which is proph­e­sied dozens (hun­dreds?) of times through­out the Bible. These clear­er prophe­cies, while they pro­vide great hope, can also cloud our vision for the hear and now — Paul chas­tised the Thes­sa­lo­ni­ans for fore­go­ing respon­si­bil­i­ties in the hear in now as they wait­ed in eager antic­i­pa­tion for the Lord’s return.

    Now, if peo­ple tru­ly believed that with­in eight years, the King­dom of Christ will be estab­lished on Earth, there’d prob­a­bly be quite a few peo­ple who would fool­ish­ly for­go all tem­po­ral affairs — mar­riage, voca­tion, and so on — in order to get in as much “spir­it time” as pos­si­ble in ser­vice to the Lord. I say this is fool­ish because, as Paul reminds us repeat­ed­ly, we have all sorts of oblig­a­tions in this world, and dis­obe­di­ence or unfaith­ful­ness in them is tan­ta­mount to dis­obe­di­ence to and unfaith­ful­ness to Jesus.

    That is why I was care­ful to tag this post with “spec­u­la­tion.” I’d be lying if I said I did­n’t believe the cur­rent events of the world are mak­ing bib­li­cal prophe­cy seem more and more immi­nent — we’re approach­ing the first time in near­ly 2,000 years that the Jews will have their tem­ple back, which is required for var­i­ous prophe­cies to come true, notably the Antichrist’s set­ting up of an image of him­self with­in the temple.

    Like­wise, where­as glob­al gov­ern­ment and glob­al reli­gion (except­ing faith­ful Jews and Chris­tians who, we are told, will suf­fer for the sake of their faith) once seemed like a fairy tale, the world is becom­ing increas­ing­ly unit­ed, just as John was shown 1,900 or so years ago on Patmos.

    “Prophe­cy is only clear in hind­sight” does­n’t seem to apply here at all. The appli­ca­tion of bib­li­cal prophe­cies to cur­rent events is cer­tain­ly a stretch and is some­thing we will like­ly only be able to tell in hind­sight, unless cer­tain major aspects of the prophe­cies do occur which would be beyond coin­ci­dence — such as a world leader declar­ing him­self to be god… in the Jews’ tem­ple… while set­ting up an idol of him­self… and giv­ing con­trol of his wor­ship over to a world prophet…

    Also, con­sid­er­ing 2008–2015 has­n’t even occurred yet, I’m not sure how I’m inter­pret­ing any­thing in hind­sight. I’m sim­ply look­ing ahead and say­ing how things might unfold based upon how I under­stand the clear­er major prophe­cies of the Bible — though there are many which I can read over and over again and they are sim­ply above my head cur­rent­ly, but then again so were door­knobs at one point, but I grew out of that too.

  5. Senior Avatar
    Senior

    “Also, con­sid­er­ing 2008–2015 hasn’t even occurred yet, I’m not sure how I’m inter­pret­ing any­thing in hindsight”

    You’re not. But since this is just anoth­er in a long line of “The world will end soon” pro­nounce­ments based on the Bible, it is meaningless.

    I can pre­dict that the Chica­go Bears will win their next game. As long as I keep pre­dict­ing it, I will even­tu­al­ly be right. Does­n’t mean I actu­al­ly pre­dict­ed it.

    I notice that the crys­tal clear prophe­cies are about what will hap­pen once the vague­ly prophe­cied end times arrive.

    I stand by my pre­dic­tion. The world will not end in 2015.

  6. theodor Avatar
    theodor

    You seem to omit the most impor­tant hap­pen­ing in it all: the rap­ture! After that antichrist will appear “For the mys­tery of law­less­ness already works; only [there is] he who restrains now until he be gone,” 2 Th2:7

  7. Rick Beckman Avatar

    I did­n’t go into the tim­ing of the Rap­ture of the Church because I am uncer­tain of its tim­ing myself. For the most of my Chris­t­ian life I’ve been a staunch pret­ribu­la­tion­ist; how­ev­er, I am com­ing more to the con­clu­sion that we sim­ply can­not know when the Rap­ture will be, and I’m fine with that until the Lord broad­ens my knowl­edge more so.

  8. Patrick Avatar

    I believe the tetrad blood moons of 2014–2015 are a sign, I just don’t know when in bib­li­cal proph­esy those actu­al­ly fit. I do know that all the oth­er prophet­ic wheels appear to be mov­ing, and some rather rapid­ly, like tech­nol­o­gy for the mark of the beast, one world gov­ern­ment (food, econ­o­my, iden­ti­fi­ca­tion, etc.), the already reborn Israel, the already revived Roman Empire, the trav­el­ing to and fro through out the earth in the last days, I believe we are in the end of the last days and the clouds are build­ing for the Tribu­la­tion Peri­od to begin. I feel it could start any day now, but I am a pre-trib­ber when it comes to the Rap­ture, so I don’t have any proph­e­sies to look at for the Rap­ture, only for the Tribu­la­tion and the Sec­ond Com­ing. I believe the Rap­ture could hap­pen at any moment. I believe the Tribu­la­tion is cer­tain­ly with­in our life times if you are younger than 45, but I’m not say­ing thus says the LORD here I’m just look­ing at the signs all around us. The light is shin­ing brighter but the decep­tion is get­ting stronger. We should be warn­ing that the hour is upon us, the Rap­ture is immi­nent and the Tribu­la­tion is near. Great article.

  9. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Patrick: Thanks for vis­it­ing & com­ment­ing! I had nev­er heard about the upcom­ing eclipses, which are cer­tain­ly interesting.

    Unless I’m miss­ing some­thing, though, the Book of Rev­e­la­tion places the dark­en­ing of the sun and red­den­ing of the moon quite ear­ly on — Rev­e­la­tion 6:12* as part of the Sixth Seal, to be exact. That would imply that 2015 would be some part of the first half of the tribu­la­tion peri­od, pri­or to the Abom­i­na­tion of Des­o­la­tion. Dur­ing the lat­ter half of 2014 and ear­ly 2015, per­haps we should watch for a major earth­quake, which is men­tioned in the same vers­es as the astro­nom­i­cal phenomena.

    * Triv­ia: Rev­e­la­tion 6:12 was quot­ed and mis-cit­ed as Rev­e­la­tion 7:12 in the 80s movie Ghost­busters.

  10. Patrick Avatar

    No, you are miss­ing any­thing, that would be cor­rect. Pas­tor Mark Blitz, a born again believ­er, has found this out but he believed it to be the end of the Tribu­la­tion, I do not, I agree with your find­ing. How­ev­er, if the Tribu­la­tion is that close, which it seri­ous­ly could be, then how much clos­er is the appear­ing of our LORD Jesus for His bride? Excit­ing, excit­ing stuff! I don’t know about you but I can’t wait to leave this wretched body of death and this cor­rupt world which sup­press­es the truth of God. The end of Satan, the end of the flesh and the end of Satan’s world sys­tem is draw­ing near. So that our voic­es may be heard in Rev­e­la­tion 22 say­ing ““Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Who­ev­er desires, let him take the water of life freely… Even so, come, Lord Jesus!”

  11. Brandon Avatar

    I agree with Senior on this one. The world will not end in 2015. Even if the 7 years startd right now, and they haven’t the tribu­la­tion requires a full 7 years to enact brin­ing us to 2016 already. I have no doubt that the tribu­la­tion could be ongo­ing in 2015 by just tak­ing a peek around me though!

    I am not con­vinced that nat­u­ral­ly pro­jectable phe­nom­e­non will occur as part of the bowl judg­ments. The sixth seal appears to have the effect of being longer term than a mere eclipse, and to be super-nat­u­ral­ly pow­er­ful and devastating.

    I am not sold on the idea that we have a ful­ly-revived Roman Empire as such in the Euro­pean Union, though I think the EU will form the back­bone of this community.

  12. Senior Avatar
    Senior

    Bran­don,

    We may agree, but for very dif­fer­ent reasons!!

    :)

  13. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Mike Com­petil­lo: Mike, wel­come to King­dom Geek, and thank you for the comment!

    I think you’re try­ing too hard to see the end of the world in 2015. Yeah, I had fun with the post above and it would be great if Christ returned very soon, but regard­ing the tim­ing it’s all so much speculation.

    Also, I do want to point out that while “70 weeks” is a prophet­ic time peri­od, six­ty-nine of those weeks have already past. We are mere­ly wait­ing the final week, which is the sev­en-year “tribu­la­tion” peri­od which takes place between the Rap­ture (accord­ing to a Pre-trib time­line) and the Sec­ond Coming.

    In oth­er words, that there are sev­en­ty weeks between the “blood moons” is not prophet­i­cal­ly sig­nif­i­cant. Nei­ther is much else that you said, sor­ry to say.

    Keep focused on the task of evan­ge­lism, see­ing that all of the elect will hear and believe, and Christ will return when His bride is com­plete. That ought to be our goal, though I so often lose sight of it.

  14. Mike Competillo Avatar

    Check the chart at http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=104119&rtn=/index.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1
    If you cal­cu­late the num­ber of days dur­ing the blood moons start­ing in 2014 until 2015 you will come up with an actu­al 70 weeks! This is a num­ber men­tioned in the book of Daniel.
    Also, take note that our sun cross­es the celes­tial equa­tor of the Milky Way galaxy and is at mid­point on 12/21/2012. This will cause great mag­net­ic forces in the sun which will cause great storms to occur on earth, and pos­si­bly solar flares and coro­noal mass ejec­tions. It’s like­ly to cause polar rever­sal to occur as well.
    The bible men­tions earth­quakes as a sign before the days of great tribu­la­tion. One can pre­dict them as I have deter­mined and then use these days as a mea­sur­ing tool for when the great­est earth­quakes will occur.
    First look up the worst quake dates in his­to­ry. Then down­load the free share­ware pro­gram ‘plan­et­watch’ or oth­er sim­i­lar plan­e­tary plot­ting pro­gram. Notice the posi­tion of the moon, sun and clos­et plan­ets includ­ing the largest (Jupiter, Sat­urn) since these are the celes­tial bod­ies which have the most grav­i­ta­tion­al force effects on us. Turn the clock back about 5 days before these earth­quake dates and you will see a pat­tern-that of a cross or ‘L’ shape con­fig­u­ra­tion of these bod­ies ‘work­ing’ togeth­er which cause major quakes on earth. This is your proof that this method works!
    Now, using the same meth­ods, I have observed the num­ber of major quakes occur­ing between now and 2014 to be increas­ing every year, with up to 14 major quakes in 2014. In 2015 and suc­ces­sive years the num­ber drops off.
    I have no doubt with the calami­ties we’ve seen already that this will be a very tur­bu­lant time in earth­’s history.
    It’s also my belief that in the years fol­low­ing 2012, elec­tri­cal pow­er gen­er­a­tion as we know it will no longer work or be much weak­er than cur­rent­ly is the case f0r rea­sons which I’m not going to go into at this time. Also, longevi­ty of life and organ­ic preser­va­tion will great­ly increase after that year.
    Mike C.

  15. Vanbx Avatar
    Vanbx

    Well, just stum­bled on to this web site and I am impressed, I don’t know many young minds that are inter­est­ed in Bible prophe­cies, thank you for your insights. I noticed that your piece was writ­ten in Jan­u­ary 2008 before the elec­tion heat­ed up and before the stock mar­ket crashed; if you were writ­ing you arti­cle today what part if any would those events play?

  16. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Van­bx: Until events start to tru­ly affect the world — from down­town New York City to the most remote tribe in Africa — I’m hes­i­tant to call eco­nom­ic crises har­bin­gers of the End of Days.

    What­ev­er the result of the upcom­ing elec­tion, Amer­i­ca as a whole is mov­ing fur­ther and fur­ther away from Jesus Christ. Although, per­haps more accu­rate­ly, the Church in Amer­i­ca is becom­ing less effi­ca­cious, allow­ing our light to be hid­den under­neath a basket.

    Regard­ing what I wrote above, 2008 is near­ly over, and peace is still unat­tained in the Mid­dle East.

  17. Patrick Avatar

    Cur­rent mar­ket cri­sis, I don’t know what play this piece has on the game board of the strate­gist Satan, but no doubt it will help to unite a glob­al econ­o­my toward a glob­al gov­er­nance. Again, this time like no oth­er in his­to­ry has too many of the need­ed proph­e­sies and techonolo­gies syn­chro­niz­ing. Yes there were those who thought we were liv­ing in the last days 100+ years ago, only they did not have the tech­nolo­gies nec­es­sary to trav­el to and fro through out the earth, they did not have satel­lite tech­nol­o­gy to make watch­ing the two wit­ness­es in Rev­e­la­tion world­wide pos­si­ble, they did not have the begin­nings even of the revived Roman Empire, they did not have a glob­al econ­o­my and the tech­nolo­gies of instant Deb­it, or the Vera Chip implant that is FDA approved. This like no oth­er time in the his­to­ry of the church is unprece­dent­ed. Even as end times proph­esy is cen­tered on Israel, they did not even have a state of Israel until May 14, 1948, so any pre­dic­tions before this would have been pre­ma­ture. How­ev­er, this gen­er­a­tion is going to see some fan­tas­tic things. I believe the young peo­ple today will see the Ten Kings of the Revived Roman Empire arise, I believe they will see the Rap­ture of the church, the attack against Israel by a Con­fed­er­a­cy of most­ly Islam­ic states being led by Rus­sia and Iran, which by the appear­ances of Ezekiel 38–39 will bring nuclear weapons in that assault. The time is at hand, the birth pangs are only just begin­ning, but they will grow stronger and clos­er togeth­er, it is when they say “Peace and safe­ty, then sud­den destruc­tion will fall upon them”, those that make their dwelling in the earth, those who have reject­ed Christ. Peter said that mock­ers and scoffers would come up in the last days, say­ing when will the com­ing of the LORD be? After all, this is what hap­pened to Israel on His first vis­i­ta­tion. So many false alarms, and false Christs had arisen that even when the true Mes­si­ah came, most of the reli­gious lead­er­ship reject­ed Him. Just as when Noah cried out and preached for 120 years that judg­ment was at hand, they mocked and did not believe, yet the proph­e­sies of God includ­ing the rebirth of the nation of Israel stand as a bea­con of warn­ing and prepa­ra­tion as to the com­ing Tribu­la­tion peri­od. I always like to inform my unbe­liev­ing friends that though you may not believe now, under­stand that the bible pre­dicts there will come out of these ten kings of the revived Roman Empire a leader who will take down three of the ten. This son of perdi­tion is called the anti-Christ, but will be very charis­mat­ic and appeal to all espe­cial­ly when he sur­vives an attempt on his life but sur­vives mirac­u­lous­ly. This false Christ will con­firm the covenant with Israel, no doubt agree­ing with the rebuild­ing of the tem­ple, which in the mid­dle of the Tribu­la­tion peri­od he walks in and claims to be God and sets up his image, to which Jesus pre­dicts in Matthew 24 known as the abom­i­na­tion that makes des­o­late. This false Christ will set up a world­wide mon­e­tary sys­tem requir­ing all to receive a mark, with­out which they can­not buy or sell. Great cala­maties will be occur­ing with some appear­ing to be man­made pos­si­ble nuclear con­flicts dur­ing this sev­en year peri­od with all the details proph­e­sied in Rev­e­la­tion 6–18. No won­der Peter said “We have a more sure word of proph­esy”. This was the con­vinc­ing fac­tor in set­tling my faith, all reli­gions teach good morals, but only Chris­tian­i­ty had a solu­tion beyond my weak­ness, once I saw the prophet­ic word I real­ized no oth­er book has so laid out the his­to­ry of man past, present, and future, prov­ing to me, that the God of Abra­ham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One who was, and is, and is to come.

  18. andrea Avatar
    andrea

    how do you if all this is ture because many peo­ple say that­no one know when it is going to end

  19. Mike Competillo Avatar
    Mike Competillo

    Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour of His return, not even Him, but only the Father. He how­ev­er did warn us to know that when the leaves on the fig tree open, sum­mer is about to begin. In the same way when you see these things start to hap­pen [see Matthew 24] you know His return is near, even at the door. He wants us to be ready and know the signs of the times.

  20. Patrick Boren Avatar

    Andrea, it is true that the bible does say that “of that day or hour knows no man”, but we aren’t pre­dict­ing a day or an hour. We are watch­ing the signs that are to warn us of the com­ing Tribu­la­tion and even­tu­al­ly Sec­ond Com­ing of Jesus. Paul said to the church at Thes­soloni­ca in 1 Thess. 5
    “1But of the times and the sea­sons, brethren, you have no need that I write unto you.
    2For your­selves know per­fect­ly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
    3For when they shall say, Peace and safe­ty; then sud­den destruc­tion comes upon them, as tra­vail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    4But you, brethren, are not in dark­ness, that that day should over­take you as a thief. ”
    Last verse here is too impor­tant, we, the body of Christ, are not in dark­ness that that day should over take us as a thief. We are the five wise vir­gins watch­ing and wait­ing for our LORD.

    Jesus gave signs that lead up to the tribu­la­tion called birth pangs in Matthew 24, but oth­er scrip­tures give us more pic­tures like Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation.

    Every end times proph­esy is in roll, begin­ning to devel­op, we are in the ear­ly birth pangs, which means the time is not yet, but draw­ing near. The church needs to pre­pare herself.

  21. mike Lamping Avatar
    mike Lamping

    Hel­lo: It has occurred to me that most proph­e­sies con­cern­ing the end times seemed to be divid­ed into two equal 3 12 year parts. The Bible seems to imply that the fall­en angels have a sense of time and seem to beware of the time they have left. Since they don’t go by any man made cal­en­dar or clock, then they must be obser­vant of astrol0gical events. The biggest astro­log­i­cal event that is loom­ing in our future is in 12/21/2012 at 11:11 am GMT when our sun cross­es the equa­tor of the Milky Way Galaxy. If that is the divid­ing line in the sev­en year tribu­la­tion, then the 22 of June 3:11 am west coast time (2009 (+ or- 24 hours)-Father’s day/1st day of sum­mer-would be 3 12 years pri­or to that date, or to be more pre­cise: the first day of the tribu­la­tion. What do you think? (Please for­give any spelling errors)

    1. Rick Beckman Avatar

      mike Lamp­ing: As much as I’d like Jesus’ return to be soon, I would­n’t put too much stock in try­ing to deter­mine when the Tribu­la­tion will begin. At best, it’s fun spec­u­la­tion; at worst, it’s a waste of time that caus­es us to lose our cred­i­bil­i­ty before plen­ty of peo­ple — with­in and with­out Christendom.

  22. DAVID FRANK Avatar
    DAVID FRANK

    HEY JESUS WILL NEVER RETURN AFTER HIS WORK WAS DONE. HE COLLECTED HIS MARKED SHEEP. THAT IS ALL. YOU NEED A CHRIST LIVING. WHY DO WE HAVE MANY RELIGONS NOW?????
    WHAT ABOUT VEGETARIAN DIET??? CHRISTANS NEVER TALK OF THAT. WHY SHOULD WE EAT MEAT OF ALL KINDS??? WHAT ABOUT MYSTISCISM???? WHAT DOES RELIGION MEANS???

    1. Glen H. Avatar
      Glen H.

      Hi David, very inter­est­ing com­ment. I just have a few ques­tions to help me clar­i­fy where you’re com­ing from.
      1. Who are His Marked sheep and…
      2. Why is He not com­ing back?
      3. Why should­n’t we eat meats of all kinds?
      4. What about mys­tis­cism? What are your thoughts on it
      5. Reli­gion accord­ing to the Bible means:
      James 1:27 “Reli­gion that is pure and unde­filed before God, the Father, is this: to vis­it orphans and wid­ows in their afflic­tion, and to keep one­self unstained from the world.” 

      1. DAVID FRANK Avatar
        DAVID FRANK

        HI GLEN,
        RELIGION MEANS GO BACK TO THE SOURCE FROM WHERE WE COME FROM.
        HIS MARKED SHEEP WERE HIS FOLLOWERS.
        HIS MISSION WAS FINISHED AND HE WENT BACK TO THE LORD.
        VEGETARIAN DIET WAS REMOVED FROM HIS TEACHING LATER .
        HE DID NOT ALLOW FLESH NOT TO BE EATEN,
        THE LAW OF GOD IS THAT GOD SENDS ONE OR MORE THAN ONE LIVING CHRIST (MASTER).
        HE NEVER ESTABLISHED A RELIGION.
        HE WAS A MEMBER OF ESSENCE.
        RELIGIONS ARE SAME. THE INNER RELIGION IS THE ONE PATH AND GOD IS THE ONE.
        MYSTICISM MEANS THE UNION OF GOD.
        HE WAS A MYSTIC TEACHER.
        WE HAVE OUR RIGHT TO DEMAND THAT LORD SHOULD MAKE HIMSELF VISIBLE TO US.
        THE TEACHING OF JESUS IS MYSTICISM AND CHRISTIANITY IS MADE BY IGNORANTS WHO NEVER SAW HIM AND NEVER HEARD HIS TEACHING. WE SHOULD FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF JESUS NOT CHRISTIANITY.
        THE WORD OF GOD IS THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT. NOT PHYSICAL WORDS. YOU CAN NOT FIND GOD FROM THE BIBLE. YOU CAN FIND HIM INSIDE AT THE THIRD EYE. YOU SHOULD KNOCK AT THE DOOR BIBLE SAYS.
        YOU SHOULD GO TO THE GOOD WEBSITE OF SUPREME MASTER CHING HAI SHE HAS AN EXCELLENT KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS ‘S LIFE. WHY NOT YOU ASK HER. JESUS WENT TO INDIA FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE HE WENT BACK TO ISRAEL. MASTER CHING HAI WELCOMES ALL RELIGIONS. I ALWAYS RESPECT THOSE PEOPLE WHO WELCOME ALL RELIGIONS. I LOVE MUSLIMS AND BUDDHAS AND SIKH AND OTHERS. YOU SHOULD LEARN TO BE THE MAN WHO LOVES ALL RELIGIONS.
        WHY DO WE HAVE MANY CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS?
        I SUGGEST THAT YOU SHOULD READ THE EXCELLENT POEMS OF KABIR WHO WAS VERY FAMOUS. HE NEVER ALLOWED FLESH TO BE EATEN.
        ALL RELIGIONS RECOMMEND VEGETARIAN DIET. WHY SHOULD WE BE VEGETARIANS?? EATING MEAT MAKES US DEAD AND VEGETARIAN DIET MAKES US ALIVE. VEGETARIAN MEANS YOU ENLIGHTEN YOURSELF VIA ALIVE ENERGY PLANT KINGDOM. THE WORD OF VEGETARIE COMES FROM GREEK AND LATIN. YOU SHOULD STUDY HISTORY OF VEGETARIANISM. LIVING CREATURES HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE TO EXPERIENCE THEIR LIVES. YOU NEVER GO TO THE MEAT INDUSTRIES IN AMERICA. THE MEAT INDUSTRIES ARE VERY DIRTY. IF YOU GO THERE, YOU WILL BE A VEGETARIAN. A LOT OF WORK WITH FEAR IS TO KILL A COW AND A SMALL WORK WITH A STRONG FAITH IS TO RAISE PLANT. MEAT IS NOT PURE AND PLANT IS PURE. THAT IS WHY WE SHOULD EAT PURE PLANT. YOU WANT TO BE LIKE A FEARFUL LION OR A FEARLESS ELEPHANT. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. LION IS COWARD WITH FEAR AND ELEPHANT IS NOT AFRAID WITH STRONG FAITH.
        DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE END OF THE WORLD IN 2015. THE AGE OF THE EARTH IS 4.5 BILLION YEARS. NOT 7000 YEARS. LOL LOL LOL. ANOTHER 5.5 BILLION YEARS TO GO. FORGET THE WORRY. BE YOURSELF.
        THANKS DAVID FRANK ME DEAF VEGETARIAN. DEAFNESS IS GOD’S GRACE.

  23. Martin Vivier Avatar
    Martin Vivier

    Inter­est­ing. If you believe Jesus, then this does not add up. Jesus said, only God knows.Mat 24:36 KJVR
    (36) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heav­en, but my Father only.

    Then also it is not for us to know. Act 1:7 KJVR
    (7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the sea­sons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    So if peo­ple exalt them­selfs above the word, they are bound to fail, just like some oth­er reli­gions have failed in the past to pre­dict the com­ming of christ acord­ing the book of Daniel.

  24. Michaela Avatar

    em im not real­ly sure about the world end­ing in 2015 but you must be prepared.
    As Satan will come pre­tend­ing to be God and leave his mark­ing on you, If you do not believe in Jesus Christ you will feel the wraft of God.
    I am not a Chris­t­ian but I have been think­ing and research­ing about it for some time now ( maybe you should to)
    xox

  25. Glenn Moore Avatar

    Hel­lo Rick,

    You have some inter­est­ing ideas. I am curi­ous how you came up with the date of 2015? I am not sure if the Mes­si­ah will come in that year, but I will say that it is cer­tain­ly possible.

    My name is Glenn Moore and I am an inde­pen­dent researcher in Scrip­ture, His­to­ry, and Chronol­o­gy. I believe also that the Mes­si­ah is com­ing soon. I have espe­cial­ly been study­ing over the past 20+ years into the Jubilees as they con­nect to Bible Chronol­o­gy and the prophe­cy of Daniel 9. I believe that with the Jubilees (as con­nect­ed with the 70 Weeks prophe­cy, which you men­tioned here) it is pos­si­ble to recre­ate a rel­a­tive­ly accu­rate chronol­o­gy from the year of Cre­ation to the present. To make a long sto­ry short, I have found that 3985 BCE is almost cer­tain­ly the most like­ly year of Cre­ation, and (there­fore) the year 2015 CE would then be the year 6000 from Cre­ation. The book of Rev­e­la­tion says that Mes­si­ah will destroy the Beast and False Prophet just before his 1000 year reign, so it looks very favor­able for the Mes­sian­ic king­dom to be set up some­time at or before the year 2016 CE. Just do a google search of “Jubilee Code 3985” or go direct­ly to the web­site itsaboutthattime.net for more information.

    PS: I don’t know exact­ly “the day or the hour” Mes­si­ah will come, but if you look at all the evi­dence (signs, Jubilee Cal­en­dar, his­tor­i­cal align­ments) it looks like we have about 7 more years to go at the most (maybe less for some of us). Hope­ful­ly, we will all be ready for that day.

    Hop­ing for the Best,

    Glenn Moore
    Jubilee Count­down Ministries
    Burleson, Texas

  26. DAVID FRANK Avatar
    DAVID FRANK

    HI RICK,
    I HAVE READ THOSE NICE COMMENTS. THE TWO THING YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ARE A LIVING CHRIST AND VEGETARIANISM. I AM SURE THAT JESUS DID PRACTICE VEGETARIANISM AND TEACH THEIR FOLLOWERS TO PRACTICE MEDITATION TO FINE GOD INSIDE. INDIAN PEOPLE AND INDEPENDENT MINDED PEOPLE KNOW HISTORY OF JESUS LIFE MORE THAN YOU. JESUS WENT TO INDIA FOR HIS MYSTIC STUDYING.
    JESUS NEVER ASKED THEIR FOLLOWERS TO BUILD ANY CHURCH BUT HE ASKED THEM TO PRACTICE VEGETARIANISM AND MEDITATION IN ORDER TO MEET GOD INSIDE. HE DID NOT NEED ANY CHURCH AT ALL,
    YOUR TALKING ABOUT GOD IS NO GOOD AT ALL BECAUSE YOU NEVER SEE GOD INSIDE. LOL LOL LOL. WHY NOT YOU WALK THE WALK TO FIND GOD INSIDE RIGHT NOW. TALKING IS CHEAP.
    YOU NEED A LIVING MASTER OF TODAY INSTEAD OF JESUS. I HAVE TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT JESUS NEVER RETURNED TO THE WORLD AS HIS MISSION WAS DONE. PERIOD. THE PROBLEM IS YOU AND I NEVER SEE HIM AT ALL AND WE DO NOT KNOW HIM AT ALL. DID YOU SEE HIM????? NO WAY. I NEVER SAW HIM AT ALL. I DID NOT KNOW HIM.
    THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE FIRST ONE TO WRITE THE BIBLE. MANY GROUPS DISAGREED WITH THE CHURCH AND THEN THEY CREATED THEIR RELIGIONS ACCORDING TO THEIR BEILF AND TASTE. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE MANY CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS. WE HAVE LOST THE TEACHING OF JESUS THAT REQUIRED VEGETARIAN DIET AND MEDITATION PRACTICE. HOW COME THE CHURCH REMOVED VEGETARIANISM AND MEDITATION PRACTICE. WHY???? IT KNEW THAT MANY PEOPLE CAN NOT DO BOTH OF THEM. IT HAS THE BIG VOLUMES OF MYSTICISM IN VICTAN CITY NEAR ROME. LOL.
    I PREFER TO USE SIMPLE WORDS TO MAKE THOSE SIMPLE POINTS WHY YOU MUST HAVE A LIVING MASTER INSTEAD OF JESUS. YOU SHOULD STUDY THE TEACHINGS OF PAST MASTERS LIKE JESUS NOT CHRISTIANITY THAT IS A BIG MESS. DAVID FRANK

  27. Rick Beckman Avatar

    I HAVE READ THOSE NICE COMMENTS. THE TWO THING YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ARE A LIVING CHRIST AND VEGETARIANISM.

    Veg­e­tar­i­an­ism is just fine, but I believe it to be total­ly option­al. God, through the Scrip­tures affirmed by Jesus, allowed man to eat of all ani­mals in His covenant with Noah and then re-affirmed (if slight­ly restrict­ed) this allowance in His Law to the Jews. Like­wise, Jesus, in the ear­li­est accounts of His life (the four canon­i­cal gospels) is record­ed to have eat­en meat. And final­ly, Jesus’ apos­tle to the Gen­tiles, Paul, affirmed that man is free to take ani­mals as food and that for­bid­ding to do so is a doc­trine of demons.

    If you want to argue for veg­e­tar­i­an­ism, at least do so know­ing that the Scrip­tures don’t sup­port the teach­ing — unless you stop read­ing pri­or to the Flood account in Genesis.

    I AM SURE THAT JESUS DID PRACTICE VEGETARIANISM AND TEACH THEIR FOLLOWERS TO PRACTICE MEDITATION TO FINE GOD INSIDE. INDIAN PEOPLE AND INDEPENDENT MINDED PEOPLE KNOW HISTORY OF JESUS LIFE MORE THAN YOU. JESUS WENT TO INDIA FOR HIS MYSTIC STUDYING.

    Where is your proof?

    JESUS NEVER ASKED THEIR FOLLOWERS TO BUILD ANY CHURCH BUT HE ASKED THEM TO PRACTICE VEGETARIANISM AND MEDITATION IN ORDER TO MEET GOD INSIDE.

    Jesus taught that His fol­low­ers are the Church, and that they are His bride. That is abun­dant­ly clear from the gospels. The India and veg­e­tar­i­an things are for­eign to Chris­tian­i­ty and to reli­able account of Jesus’ life.

    HE DID NOT NEED ANY CHURCH AT ALL,
    YOUR TALKING ABOUT GOD IS NO GOOD AT ALL BECAUSE YOU NEVER SEE GOD INSIDE. LOL LOL LOL. WHY NOT YOU WALK THE WALK TO FIND GOD INSIDE RIGHT NOW. TALKING IS CHEAP.

    Thank you for find­ing my appar­ent heresy to be so hilar­i­ous. It’s good to know you’re tak­ing the top­ic mat­ter seriously.

    And con­trary to what you are imply­ing, I do take the sub­ject seri­ous­ly, and I do believe in a liv­ing, res­ur­rect­ed Jesus Christ. The dif­fer­ence is, I can point to the Word of God, a foun­da­tion more sure than even a voice from Heav­en. You keep repeat­ing “India!” and “Veg­e­tar­i­an!” in much the same way as Oba­ma kept say­ing “Hope!” and “Change!” to get elect­ed — it might sound nice to you and those like you, but it lacks sub­stance and any­thing to back it up.

    YOU NEED A LIVING MASTER OF TODAY INSTEAD OF JESUS.

    There is only one wor­thy to be called Mas­ter, and that is Jesus.

    I HAVE TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT JESUS NEVER RETURNED TO THE WORLD AS HIS MISSION WAS DONE. PERIOD.

    I agree that He has­n’t returned to Earth; how­ev­er, I would have to end the thought with “yet.” His mis­sion isn’t done, and the state of the world is strong evi­dence to that effect. Not until the lion and the lamb lay down togeth­er, not until the child plays with the most dan­ger­ous of snakes with­out harm will Jesus’ mis­sion be done.

    THE PROBLEM IS YOU AND I NEVER SEE HIM AT ALL AND WE DO NOT KNOW HIM AT ALL. DID YOU SEE HIM????? NO WAY. I NEVER SAW HIM AT ALL. I DID NOT KNOW HIM.

    If you don’t know Him, how do you know where He went and what He had for din­ner each night?

    THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE FIRST ONE TO WRITE THE BIBLE. MANY GROUPS DISAGREED WITH THE CHURCH AND THEN THEY CREATED THEIR RELIGIONS ACCORDING TO THEIR BEILF AND TASTE.

    Every book of the Scrip­tures pre­dates the Roman Catholic Church by hun­dreds (if not thou­sands, in the case of the ear­li­est Old Tes­ta­ment books) of years. Rome had noth­ing to do with the for­ma­tion of the canon; per­haps you’ve seen The Da Vin­ci Code a few too many times? The New Tes­ta­ment books were writ­ten and were in com­mon use among church­es with­in sev­en­ty to 100 years after the Res­ur­rec­tion; the Roman Catholic Church was estab­lished a few cen­turies after the Res­ur­rec­tion — pri­or to that point, Chris­tian­i­ty was ille­gal and in no way sup­port­ed by Rome.

    THAT IS WHY WE HAVE MANY CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS. WE HAVE LOST THE TEACHING OF JESUS THAT REQUIRED VEGETARIAN DIET AND MEDITATION PRACTICE.

    If it was lost, how is it you have found it so many thou­sands of years lat­er? Even the ear­li­est apos­tles, such as Paul, seemed unfa­mil­iar with the prac­tice. You’d think Jesus would have ham­mered the point home if veg­e­tar­i­an­ism was so impor­tant; instead, He seems to have spent most of His time talk­ing about that sin and sal­va­tion stuff… What’s up with that?

    HOW COME THE CHURCH REMOVED VEGETARIANISM AND MEDITATION PRACTICE. WHY????

    There’s no evi­dence that Jesus taught either, so they aren’t things that the church “removed”; they sim­ply were nev­er part of the church to begin with. If they were, I’m ask­ing for some evi­dence — some­thing beyond your feel­ings, hopes, and dreams. Thanks.

    IT KNEW THAT MANY PEOPLE CAN NOT DO BOTH OF THEM. IT HAS THE BIG VOLUMES OF MYSTICISM IN VICTAN CITY NEAR ROME. LOL.

    It removed veg­e­tar­i­an­ism and med­i­ta­tion because peo­ple can’t do them? That’s bit of a lame argu­ment. Have you read the New Tes­ta­ment? Jesus demands per­fec­tion from His fol­low­ers — no lies, no idol­a­try, no hate, and so on. Those are strict com­mands. Veg­e­tar­i­an­ism and med­i­ta­tion are easy by com­par­i­son — even the lost and dying of the world can choose to go with­out meat and med­i­tate! Those things aren’t exact­ly dif­fi­cult, David.

    I PREFER TO USE SIMPLE WORDS TO MAKE THOSE SIMPLE POINTS WHY YOU MUST HAVE A LIVING MASTER INSTEAD OF JESUS. YOU SHOULD STUDY THE TEACHINGS OF PAST MASTERS LIKE JESUS NOT CHRISTIANITY THAT IS A BIG MESS. DAVID FRANK

    Again, there is only one Mas­ter, and that is Jesus Christ.

    In the future, if you choose to com­ment here again, I’m going to ask for you to turn your caps lock off. Thanks.

  28. Steve Avatar
    Steve

    Hi all
    What a great web­site Rick. I am so glad I was led here and I imag­ine I shall be spend­ing reg­u­lar time read­ing and maybe adding to these very inter­est­ing topics.
    I just want­ed to respond to David Frank’s com­ment regard­ing Jesus Christ :

    THE PROBLEM IS YOU AND I NEVER SEE HIM AT ALL AND WE DO NOT KNOW HIM AT ALL. DID YOU SEE HIM????? NO WAY. I NEVER SAW HIM AT ALL. I DID NOT KNOW HIM.

    Well David, on April the 29th 2009 at around 3am in my bed­room, I met Jesus Christ.
    I was deliv­ered from a demon­ic force and I had a con­ver­sa­tion with Jesus. A very impor­tant part of the con­ver­sa­tion was when Jesus said ” Fol­low me and watch “.
    Since then I have fol­lowed Him and I have watched and to be hon­est with you, you real­ly need to search Him out with all of your heart and call Him to help you. He is very real and it is such a shame to hear your rebel­lious com­ments when all you need to have is faith in Him. Why don’t you try read­ing the New Tes­ta­ment, try the Gospel of John, search Jesus out instead of assum­ing about Him and being neg­a­tive. He died for you also you know? and He is com­ing back, quite soon I believe.
    Faith comes by hear­ing the Word of God.

  29. Gary Wade Avatar
    Gary Wade

    I believe that the years 2012 through 2015 are indeed major years in prophe­cy and I also believe that it is like­ly that Jesus will return near or on 2015 AD. There are too many signs in the heav­ens (solar and lunar eclipses on Jew­ish days etc.) and on earth for it to be noth­ing. Even using num­ber mean­ings 14 means Deliv­er­ance and Sal­va­tion; 15 means Rest and the sum of 8 and 7 and the prod­uct of 3 and 5 (8 means New Birth, New Cre­ation, and New Begin­ning; 7 means Com­plete­ness and Spir­i­tu­al Per­fec­tion; 3 means Res­ur­rec­tion and Divine Com­plete­ness; 5 means Grace, God’s Good­ness, and REDEMPTION.

    Yes, I could say for a cer­tain­ty that 2012 through 2015 will bring the sec­ond com­ing of our Lord and Sav­iour Jesus Christ and our redemption.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus

  30. DAVID FRANK Avatar
    DAVID FRANK

    Rick,
    NO, God Still send more than one Liv­ing Christ Mas­ter. NO way Jesus is the only Mas­ter. I have my nice pity on you who are not will­ing to study the orig­i­nal teach­ings of Jesus and past Mas­ters. I laugh about your belief that flesh is allowed to eat. You must be a veg­e­tar­i­an. Then you will know why we must be veg­e­tar­i­an. Meat is very very dirty to eat. KILLING IS NOT NATURAL. WHY NOT YOU EAT PEOPLE LIKE ANIMALS.

  31. Jair Avatar
    Jair

    Killin’ may not be orig­i­nal but it cer­tain­ly is nau­tral. Came nat­ur­al to me from the get go and I’m talk­ing maul of an axe over the skull or knife to the throat nat­ur­al, not dis­tanced gun shoot­ing where you could argue that you can dis­con­nect you’r­self from the slaugh­ter. Cer­tain­ly its deeply spir­i­tu­al to kill an ani­mal and I tend to look down on peo­ple who dis­rep­sect the crit­ter by tak­ing one part and leav­ing it to rot, I make as much use of the skin, innards, and meat as prac­ti­cal­ly pos­si­ble. Still, its not at all unnat­ur­al and it certin­ly not dirty unless you’ve left it too long or dragged it. 

    Of course many ani­mals and cer­tain parts of all ani­mals are unhealthy to eat much of, humans are high on that list of unhealthy meat, but I don’t begrudge the peo­ple who in a strand­ed sit­u­a­tion ate their dead commrades. 

    One of the deep spiru­tal things about killing is the reminder that with­out shed­ding of blood there is no rem­mis­sion for sins. Need­in to kill is a nat­u­al con­siquence of a fall­en state. Its hard to find some­thing more nat­ur­al than nat­ur­al con­siquence. We have to under­stand our fall­en state to get past it, and if you can’t even get some blood on you’re hands you’re nowhere close. You want to know God? (I doubt it, but any­way) Go raise some pheasents and crack thi­er necks with you’re bare hands, that will tell you some­thing about what you are and what is natural.

    Then with a lit­tle blood on you’re hands you just might start see why Jesus is THE Christ, and the only way, truth and life. But I doubt you want to do that…

  32. Psudonom Avatar
    Psudonom

    I stren­u­ous­ly object to David Frank’s asser­tion that its accept­able to destroy help­less plants just to sus­tain ones self. I laugh at how he belives its ok to eat plants which have not harmed any­thing and do not deserve to be destroyed just for his con­vi­nence. To tru­ely fol­low the teach­ings of the mas­ters you must sur­vive off of sun­light, min­er­als, and the ener­gy of the uni­verse and not self­ish­ly destroy the inno­cent life of veg­it­a­bles. David Frank is a tru­ely bar­bar­ic and Destruc­tive person.

  33. David Avatar

    I agree with Senior. His state­ments are well-thought and intel­li­gent, ground­ed in rea­son. I do not believe the world will end in 2015. There is no rea­son to believe the world will end in 2015, except for bronze-age (and pri­or) alle­gor­i­cal texts and a cur­rent trend of pan­ic over the end times. I also do not believe it will end in 2012. There is no rea­son to believe that the world will end.

  34. Rick Beckman Avatar

    David… do you mean like ever? Because even from a human­ist stand­point, the world will end at some point — prob­a­bly due to Repub­li­cans dri­ving big cars and eat­ing non-organ­ic, processed meats while watch­ing Beck and Coul­ter on tele­vi­sion while lis­ten­ing to that ter­ri­ble, free­dom-lov­ing coun­try music… or so I’m led to believe.

    But that’s just it; if you do reject an absolute God, absolute truth, and so on… then you’re left with a ter­ri­ble nat­u­ral­ism, and you’re absolute­ly wast­ing your time by attempt­ing to get any­one to agree with you. From your own stand­point, you must accept that it does­n’t mat­ter. We’re all just des­tined for the Big Chill or the Big Snap or how­ev­er the uni­verse is bound to end accord­ing to cur­rent cos­mo­log­i­cal mod­els. There’s no way the human race is absolute­ly sus­tain­able, so why pre­tend any­thing mat­ters at all? Apart from absolute truth, you’re doing noth­ing more than grasp­ing at straws.

  35. David Avatar

    Rick:

    From a strict point of view, the world has to end some day, prob­a­bly due to the col­lapse of a star or due to some piece of tech­nol­o­gy that man­ages to rip it apart. Human­i­ty is not invul­ner­a­ble and can cer­tain­ly end, as have many oth­er species in the past. There is no rea­son to believe that the world will end because peo­ple pre­dict it. 

    Even the bible says that the end will come when we least expect it. Bib­li­cal­ly speak­ing, the world can­not end at any time it is pre­dict­ed. So, even if I accept­ed that the bible, writ­ten by men thou­sands of years ago, were infal­li­ble I would also have to accept that I can’t know when the vague­ly pre­dict­ed end will be. Nor can I ful­ly under­stand whether or not those parts stat­ing the end of the world actu­al­ly mean the end of the world, the end of an age, the end of a civ­i­liza­tion, or the end of a king’s reign.

    I find your repub­li­can stereo­type fun­ny, as well as your lib­er­al stereo­type. That is an attempt at humour that suc­ceeds and is deserv­ing of con­grat­u­la­tions. Well done.

    Whether or not I reject and absolute god of any kind is a tad dif­fi­cult to answer. When you say “absolute”, I have to assume that you mean a god who is (or which is, if the god is not a sen­tient being) clear­ly defined and stat­ed as a god. Next, you would have to tell me what you mean by “god”. You cap­i­tal­ized it and this is your web­site, so I have to assume you mean the Chris­t­ian god. If you meant one of the enti­ties that has been called “god” in the past it would depend on what that enti­ty is. There have been claims of Alexan­der the Great being a god. Egypt­ian kings were also called “gods”. These peo­ple exist­ed. There­fore, I believe in their pri­or exis­tence. If peo­ple start say­ing that Alexan­der was an immor­tal who lives in the sky, is invis­i­ble, and whose influ­ence on human­i­ty is mas­sive but is demon­stra­ble to be equal to chance, I would have to say that I believe in Alexan­der no more than I believe in aliens (pos­si­ble that it exists but no evi­dence given).

    I don’t know why you are so afraid of nat­u­ral­ism. Sure­ly you are not igno­rant enough to believe that nat­u­ral­ism implies an emp­ty mean­ing­less exis­tence for every­thing. Humans have con­scious­ness and sen­tience. We define the mean­ing of our sur­round­ings. Music, poet­ry, bril­liant lit­er­a­ture, and even Sponge­bob Squarepants, all these things were cre­at­ed by the human mind and are of val­ue (Sponge­bob is debat­able). I have no rea­son to accept that life, this life does­n’t mat­ter. Since I reject the claim that there is a life after this (due to lack of evi­dence) I am forced to live as though this life is all we have. Since I have great evi­dence of the exis­tence of oth­er peo­ple, I must con­clude that a lot of oth­er peo­ple are in a sim­i­lar sit­u­a­tion. And, I keep see­ing new peo­ple every day. Every day, approx­i­mate­ly 368,314 babies are born (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/pcwe). This means that mil­lions of new chil­dren are born each week. That means the num­ber of peo­ple I could poten­tial­ly affect by doing some­thing wrong also increas­es. If I kill even one per­son, I rob them of the only oppor­tu­ni­ty they will ever have at life. If you kill one per­son, you believe they are going on to anoth­er life. If that per­son is a Chris­t­ian, you believe you are spir­it­ing them away to Heav­en faster, mean­ing that they will be in a bet­ter place faster. Sure, it would be ter­ri­ble for you if it meant you would go to Hell. But, it does­n’t. Mur­der isn’t an unfor­giv­able sin. You can be for­giv­en of that sin. So, does­n’t it log­i­cal­ly con­clude that this life is more mean­ing­less to a Chris­t­ian than it is for a naturalist/humanist/materialist athe­ist per­son? If I low­er some­body’s qual­i­ty of life by, for exam­ple, telling them that they can’t mar­ry the per­son he/she loves, sim­ply because I have a book that says we should only mar­ry peo­ple who are of a dif­fer­ent hair colour, I’m mak­ing an impact on the oth­er per­son­’s life and poten­tial­ly ruin­ing it because of what some­one else wrote. 

    Human­i­ty’s end will come some day. But, there is no rea­son to believe any of us know when. The only way to know when human­i­ty will end is to inten­tion­al­ly end it. If all life ends bil­lions of years in the future, due to a big chill, big snap, or just a big black hole, we still have all that time to look for­ward to enjoy­ing, and mak­ing bet­ter for oth­er peo­ple, and pro­mot­ing the phe­nom­e­non of life.

    I’m not grasp­ing at straws. I’m being opti­mistic and see­ing the bright side of life while try­ing to demote the wrong­do­ings of peo­ple. If I believed that the world would end tomor­row, I still would­n’t live like there is no point to any­thing. I would still go on try­ing to help out peo­ple when they need help. I would still believe that humans should be treat­ed equal, with equal rights and equal freedoms.

    I still hope you don’t actu­al­ly believe what you implied before, that chil­dren deserve to die.

  36. Kristen Avatar
    Kristen

    Noone knows when jesus is com­ing back it could be a mil­lion years from know. Im 13 years old God called me to be a mis­sion­ary. He would­nt of if he new the world was going to end in 2012 or 2015 its not so stop!

  37. Glenn Moore Avatar

    Dear Kris­ten,

    You said we should “stop.” Kris­ten, that is a fear response. We are not to live by fear, but by faithas we bold­ly face the future, know­ing that there real­ly is a light at the end of the tunnel.

    Now I don’t believe the world will be com­plete­ly oblit­er­at­ed into cos­mic dust, as some have sug­gest­ed. The Bible nowhere teach­es that. But it DOES teach that there is a judg­ment day com­ing, one just before and one just after the 1000 year reign of Mes­si­ah. And I don’t know if Mes­si­ah is com­ing in 2015, but I am sure that it will not be mil­lions of years from now. In fact, I am pret­ty sure (based on some spe­cial research of my own regard­ing the Jubilee cycles) that 2015 may actu­al­ly be very close to the cor­rect time. And while I do not know the day or the hour, I am cer­tain (based upon Scrip­ture and the events tak­ing place around the world) that the day of judg­ment is com­ing very soon. Maybe (since you are not now old enough) you can be one of those mis­sion­ar­ies dur­ing the 1000 years to go to the gen­tiles and invite them to the feast of Taber­na­cles, as described in Zechari­ah 14, where it speaks of what will hap­pen dur­ing that 1000 years:

    And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to wor­ship the King, the LORD [Yah­weh] of hosts, and to keep the feast of taber­na­cles. (Zechari­ah 14:16)

    Mes­si­ah Yahshua him­self says that it is the wicked who will not know the time of his com­ing, not the righteous:

    But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heav­en, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the com­ing of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eat­ing and drink­ing, mar­ry­ing and giv­ing in mar­riage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the com­ing of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:36–39)

    But know this, that if the good­man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suf­fered his house to be bro­ken up. (Matthew 24:42–43)

    Please notice it is the “good­man of the house” that knows the gen­er­al time in which the thief would come and there­fore is pre­pared. And it is the wicked who did not know the time of judg­ment (even though they had oppor­tu­ni­ty to learn of this from Noah him­self). I believe that if Yah­weh has set a day of judg­ment for the world, it would only be fair of Him to give all the world an oppor­tu­ni­ty to know about when that event should take place. So, con­sid­er this fair warning…

    Always Hop­ing for the Best,

    Glenn Moore

  38. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Your rea­son­ing is flawed. If you were called to be a mis­sion­ary, that would mean you have a few years to serve as one. Why do you delay? (And more to the point, where is the call­ing to be a mis­sion­ary every described in the Scrip­tures? I think you’re think­ing of evan­ge­list, in which case your respon­si­bil­i­ty is to your home first, then the sur­round­ing areas, then to the world around that… In which case, I ask again, why do you delay?)

    Also, say­ing “no one knows” is also wrong. We may not know the day or the hour, but noth­ing says we won’t know the year or the gen­er­al sea­son. Peo­ple knew it when He came the first time; there’s no rea­son to think that the same won’t hold true for His ulti­mate return.

  39. Sukesh Avatar

    World end in 15/8/2015 it is impos­si­ble .1st things world is so large no one know about this ‚yes I agree with this point due to some nat­ur­al events are repeat­ed by nature .so some events are being on Earth i.e no end of world .sup­pose one place come on Earth­quick i.e not all per­son die,all ani­mal die .It is pos­si­ble Env­ior­ment is change,structure of world change ‚may be some­thing wrong.…but not end the World

  40. Rick Beckman Avatar

    If we’re going by nat­ur­al dis­as­ters, then it should be not­ed that there are prob­a­bly more ways for nature to destroy life on Earth than there are in all the apoc­a­lypses spo­ken of in reli­gion. Gam­ma ray bursts, comet impacts, super­mas­sive solar flares, etc. It is arro­gant and fool­ish to believe that life on Earth is a cer­tain thing. One way or anoth­er, it’s going to end, whether you believe that to be at the hands of a venge­ful God like I do or at the hands of a uni­verse that is sim­ply out to kill us like cos­mol­o­gy would lead us to believe.

  41. David Avatar

    Gam­ma ray bursts? That sounds like a ter­ri­ble movie I saw this past week­end (2012: Super­no­va). It was just wrong in so many ways. In any case, it is high­ly unlike­ly that a gam­ma ray burst would harm Earth. It’s one of those things best not to wor­ry about on a dai­ly basis.

    Sukesh seems to be com­ment­ing on the erro­neous state­ment of “end of the world”, as the world itself will not end, but life on Earth could end. One day it will end. How­ev­er, this is like­ly some­thing that will hap­pen a long time from now.

    Rick, the uni­verse is not out to do any­thing. That’s just bad think­ing. We have no rea­son to believe that the uni­verse does any­thing with any inten­tion. The fact that we will even­tu­al­ly all become extinct due to the nature of the uni­verse implies no inten­tion on the part of the uni­verse to destroy all life with­in it.

  42. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Then tell sci­en­tists to stop say­ing that Earth was “designed for life” or what­ev­er. If there’s no inten­tion, then there’s no inten­tion. There’s also no pur­pose or mean­ing. But that’s too depress­ing, so the athe­ists delude them­selves, then they say we Chris­tians are the ones who are delud­ed. Sad sit­u­a­tion they have them­selves in there.

  43. David Avatar

    Sci­en­tists don’t say that Earth was “designed for life”. They say that life devel­oped and evolved on Earth, adapt­ing to its envi­ron­ment over time so that it appears as though it was designed for life. You’re right. The uni­verse in and of itself has no pur­pose or mean­ing. How­ev­er, we are sen­tient beings. We give pur­pose and mean­ing to what is around us. In fact, Dawkins gave a lec­ture about purpose.

    Youtube Link — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT4EWCRfdUg

    Enjoy.

  44. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Exact­ly, athe­ists delude them­selves into think­ing things have val­ue and mean­ing. I don’t need Dawkins to tell me that; it’s a giv­en. For some­thing to have mean­ing, it must be applied from the out­side — the dia­mond does­n’t give itself mean­ing, we do. What gives us mean­ing? Each oth­er? Per­haps, but then, what of the race as a whole? If there is no tran­scen­dent being, there is no true, last­ing mean­ing or val­ue. We evi­dent­ly invent mean­ing as a means of cop­ing with a real­i­ty which our so-called sen­tience has allowed us to under­stand is cru­el and (apart from God, exact­ly as the Scrip­tures say in Eccle­si­astes) van­i­ty. In oth­er words, it is a delu­sion, a crutch the likes of which athe­ists would like to think only the reli­gious would cling to.

  45. Logos7 Avatar
    Logos7

    See the thing is, when you point a fin­ger, you have 3 point­ing right back at you. When hon­est­ly, the Athi­est ‘Val­ues’ are so close to your own (lets look at the 10 com­mand­ments, the athi­ests are still get­ting a pass­ing grade for the most part), call­ing them delu­sion­al real­ly poor­ly reflects upon your own values.

    I see no rea­son why the race as a whole can­not take val­ues from mem­bers of that race. Sure they are not onto­log­i­cal­ly real, but real­ly look­ing at them prac­ti­cal­ly, they are pret­ty much a match for yours. I real­ly don’t think one side say­ing the oth­er side is delu­sion­al is some great revala­tion, but prob­a­bly a vio­la­tion of love thy neigh­bor and ene­my and all that jazz. 

    The world itself has already dis­cov­ered and has been liv­ing with post­mod­ernism for quite some time. I real­ly dont see your prob­lem here.

  46. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Post­mod­ernism is self-defeat­ing. If there is no truth, then that state­ment itself is an untruth.

    Frankly, I don’t care that there are three fin­gers point­ing back at me. That’s the prin­ci­ple of Matthew 7: Judge not, lest ye be judged. I judge the athe­ists by their own stan­dards, and by those stan­dards, there can be no mean­ing or val­ue or moral­i­ty unless they invent it. If they admit it’s mere­ly a human inven­tion and that their own lives have no intrin­sic val­ue based on their world­view, that’s fine. I only want them to be hon­est. By my world­view, they are infi­nite­ly valu­able because they are made in the image of God. Athe­ists don’t appre­ci­ate when I judge them thus­ly, so I approach them from their own point of view.

    Lov­ing our neigh­bors, bib­li­cal­ly, requires that we warn them of the judg­ment to come. That is what Jesus, the prophets, the apos­tles, the whole of the Scrip­tures requires. There is no “Live and let live” con­cept in the Bible; accord­ing to bib­li­cal prin­ci­ples, to sim­ply live and let live is to hate your neigh­bor, allow­ing them to fly head­long into con­dem­na­tion with­out warning.

  47. Logos7 Avatar
    Logos7

    I already said that Post mod­ernism doen­s’t have an onto­log­i­cal truth. That does­n’t mean Post Mod­ernism is untrue (in that it either does­n’t exist or is only a filthy lie per­pet­u­at­ed to rile you up, or in that it has no truths with­in it). If a post mod­ernist says ‘Its wrong to kill’ are they real­ly say­ing ‘its okay to kill because post mod­ernism is a lie’? No they are not. The truths of post mod­ernism are those truths that post mod­ernist give them, and quite frankly are use­ful for any num­ber of things (like video game cri­tique, which im pret­ty sure you have some opin­ion on , as video games are not in the bible, it does­n’t sud­den­ly become a con­fused heap of lies and lies and lies and noth­ing but lies.)

    I’m sure most athi­ests are will­ing to admit that their val­ues are cre­at­ed by them­selves or oth­er humans. Its when you call them delu­sion­al that you prob­a­bly get them riled up. 

    Odd­ly enough human­i­ty has cre­at­ed a post mod­ern truth about how to get your impor­tant mes­sages out and heard by peo­ple. its called don’t be a dick, even thought what it means to be a dick is not in the bible (except by exam­ple lololdtes­ti­ment) peo­ple more or less agree what it means to that. You don’t approach them from their own point of view, you try to throw it in their faces, and then feign sur­prise when peo­ple are annoyed. The only judge­ment i can real­ly make is either idio­cy or deceit. 

    And yes, While warn­ing your neigh­bors is a require­ment of love, I don’t think the lord almighty, used a word like love, rich with con­no­ta­tion and the human spir­it, so some ass­hole can strip all mean­ing out of it, and only do what is required. When god said love, he meant love, unless you want to ques­tion (or hen­peck) gods true mean­ing, in which case I would accuse of of being a ‘multi­ble choice’ chris­t­ian , what­ev­er you choose is cor­rect and what­ev­er any­one else choos­es is wrong and bad and not at all what the bible is writ­ten like or at least meant to be writ­ten like. Love is love, talk­ing about require­ments and min­i­mums is not love my friend.

  48. David Avatar

    Athe­ist:
    –noun
    a per­son who denies or dis­be­lieves the exis­tence of a supreme being or beings.

    ****
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist
    ****

    I fail to see a state­ment of a worldview.

    As an athe­ist, I would like to make it known to Rick that I find it insult­ing that you think I deserve to be thrown into fire and tor­ment­ed for all eter­ni­ty. I find it insult­ing that you believe chil­dren deserve death and damna­tion. But, what I also find insult­ing is when you tell me what I believe. You say I believe that noth­ing has val­ue and there is no point to any­thing. You’ve said it mul­ti­ple times. And, mul­ti­ple times I’ve told you that I don’t believe noth­ing has val­ue and there is no point to any­thing. If you want to claim that I’m delu­sion­al, remem­ber what Logos7 said about the 3 fin­gers point­ing back. I might add that they are your fin­gers point­ing back at you.

    I will nev­er say any­thing is “mere­ly” a human inven­tion. I will say that things are human inven­tions, but I won’t degrade the val­ue of human inge­nu­ity by attach­ing the word “mere­ly”. That belit­tles every­one. The fact that we can send peo­ple to the moon and that they can dri­ve golf balls there is an incred­i­ble feat, and we’re get­ting bet­ter all the time, except when hin­dered by spe­cial inter­est groups (eg. stem cell research).

    And, what’s this “unless they invent it” stuff? You do real­ize that you have a part in deter­min­ing what moral val­ues we hold as a soci­ety? And, you claim that humans are infi­nite­ly valu­able because “we’re made in the image of God”, yet you say we all deserve death (ref. Octo­ber 5, 2009 at 1:08 am — http://rickbeckman.org/men-of-the-bible-with-multiple-wives/). If some­thing has val­ue then you treat it with respect. If you had a fam­i­ly (spouse, kids, and pets) and you loved them, cher­ished them, and val­ued them, would you lock them in your house and burn it to the ground? Would you ship your kids off to be whipped, beat­en, and tor­tured? Would you hire a hit­man to kill your chil­dren because they won’t stop mak­ing mess­es and nois­es? No. You would pro­tect them and keep them away from harm of any kind when­ev­er pos­si­ble. Yet, you claim that your all-lov­ing god com­mand­ed chil­dren to be put to death for being unruly, women to be put to death for being raped, and men to be put to death for hav­ing sex with men. And yet, you claim that all these peo­ple have infi­nite value.

  49. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Actu­al­ly, I *don’t* get athe­ists riled up, with the excep­tion of per­haps David above. In the athe­is­tic (or prop­er­ly, the sec­u­lar human­ist) world­view, there is no room for tran­scen­dent val­ue, only the imag­ined mean­ing and moral­i­ty of ugly sacks of most­ly water.

    While David sits in accu­sa­tion of me due to his mis­un­der­stand­ing of bib­li­cal teach­ing (that we all deserve death is a mat­ter of jus­tice, not of val­ue or worth; val­ue demands that we not mur­der each oth­er, not that a tran­scen­dent being who is the source of worth can decide when to take us from this world so that He may deal with us in the next), I sim­ply call the athe­ist to hon­esty. At best, we are no more valu­able than a dung bee­tle or the dung that it sub­sists on. Chem­i­cal­ly, we’re pret­ty much the same; ulti­mate­ly, our fate is the same. There is noth­ing tran­scen­dent to this world (such as the human soul) to dif­fer­en­ti­ate man from ani­mal, nor is there a spir­it to dif­fer­en­ti­ate liv­ing ani­mals from dead, rot­ting ani­mals. Every­thing is vanity.

  50. Logos7 Avatar
    Logos7

    First, I have shown how oth­er tran­scen­den­tal val­ues could exist oth­er than god (ie pla­ton­ic objects and all that. 

    Sec­ond, Sec­u­lar human­ist are by all means not all athe­ists. There are athe­ist sec­u­lar human­ists and sec­u­lar human­ists who are athe­ists but they are iden­ti­cal by any means. There are some athe­ists out there who believe in no val­ues ‚etc ‚etc.

    You want to call the athi­est to hon­esty that , their val­ues are cul­ture cre­at­ed and bound, but your argu­ing against a straw man. I’m sure either the athi­ests have accept­ed that their are no tran­scen­den­tal val­ues or have alter­na­tive sys­tems for allow­ing for tran­scen­den­tal val­ues (The idea that sen­tience itself has built in val­ues , inde­pen­dant of cul­tures, the idea of uni­ver­sal kar­ma, vibes, ener­gy or oth­er things. 

    You keep say­ing these things are van­i­ty, but the only under­stand­ing of van­i­ty that makes sense for those who have no tran­scen­den­tal val­ues, is that they lack tran­scen­den­tal val­ues. Some­thing I’m sure athi­ests will own up to , because I find them to be a rather hon­est and rea­sonible lot. All the oth­er under­stand­ings of van­i­ty (pride and what not) do not make sense, because they require sen­tience. The uni­verse can­not be a vain (pride­ful) place becaus­es places can­not have pride, they are objects, not subjects.

    Athe­ists are gen­er­al­ly a diverse lot, who for the most part, have no prob­lems with being athi­ests. (even if you accuse them of pride, what you are real­ly accus­ing them is pride before or over the lord, who they don’t believe in, see how that makes lit­tle sense, and does­n’t real­ly con­vince any­one of any­thing. Oth­er­wise , yeah humans have pride, we made whole moral sys­tems, reli­gious sys­tems, sci­en­tif­ic sys­tems, social sys­tems all to serve our­selves, its an accom­plish­ment when there is not some sky­god there to make sure it hap­pens, an accom­plish­ment that deserves pride.)

    Your not call­ing any­body to any­thing , but rather try­ing to impose on them, define, them, den­i­grate them. Its unneigh­bourly. The rea­son you dont rile up athi­ests i’m, will­ing to wager, is because none of them are will­ing to lis­ten to you because you seem like a pom­pus ass who is too busy rant­i­ng on about van­i­ty as apposed to lis­ten­ing to the oth­er peo­ple your sup­pos­ed­ly in con­ver­sa­tion with. 

    I mean real­ly, if you have a chance to con­vince some­one to accept the lord and you failed too because you are too much of a stuck up ass (ie are to pride­ful to lis­ten, or are a bad neigh­bor, etc,etc) you should feel damn ashamed of your­self, not because the lord says so, but rather that you just con­signed some­one to eter­nal tor­ment which is an awful awful thing, regard­less of whether it is just or not.

  51. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Actu­al­ly, the atti­tude of the per­son shar­ing the Gospel has absolute­ly noth­ing to do with it. The Word of the Lord is quick, sharp­er than a two-edged sword. Even those who share with false motives are rejoiced over, for the Word will not return void when it falls upon the prop­er soil.

    I’d have to be con­vinced that the human brain is intrin­si­cal­ly valu­able, oth­er­wise I’m not going to be con­vinced that it can con­trive things of intrin­sic val­ue (such as sen­tience or what­ev­er). Is this just anoth­er attempt by unbe­liev­ers to have some­thing spring from noth­ing (life from non-life, val­ue from non-val­ue)? I’ve seen plen­ty of unbe­liev­ers make the chal­lenge, “Prove that there is a God.” To that, I sim­ply say, “Prove to me why that mat­ters” or any of a thou­sand vari­a­tions there­of, most sim­ply, “Prove to me why any­thing mat­ters.” If they can’t prove that, then they are rely­ing on faith for their beliefs as I am, and they become hyp­ocrites for judg­ing me for liv­ing by faith.

  52. david frank Avatar
    david frank

    rick you must be send to napa state hos­pi­tal in napa, cal­i­for­nia. jesus fin­ished his mis­sion to teach his fol­low­ers only dur­ing his life. he did give the gift of the WORD to them. then they prac­ticed their med­i­ta­tion to find GOD inside with jesus;s help. he nev­er returned to the world for good. he col­lect­ed his marked sheep who were those fol­low­ers only but not you. you need a liv­ing mas­ter today.
    you must be a nice joke. you will be wrong some­day. the world will not end yet until 4.5 bil­ion years.
    why do we have many reli­gions now??? you must study them. you can not judge peo­ple of all religions.
    those nice peo­ple believe their reli­gions that is their busi­ness. it is none of your busi­ness to con­vert them to chris­tian­i­ty teach­ing that is a big mess veg­e­tar­i­an­ism and med­i­ta­tion and rein­car­na­tion were delet­ed by roman catholic church. you use the wrong bible writ­ten by the same church. but the church has two big vol­ume of mys­ti­cism that is nev­er open to the pub­lic. you must go to vactin city for your­self. trust me. thanks david frank

  53. Rick Beckman Avatar

    Here’s a reply to you from my good friend Glen H.:

    David, it’s sooo easy to make a major blan­ket state­ment with­out pro­vid­ing any source or research or ref­er­ences what­so­ev­er. I could tell you I have din­ner with lit­tle green men every night, and that Yoda was based off a real crea­ture from the plan­et yotoa­nia, but would mean noth­ing with­out any proof.

    Very sim­i­lar to your rant that can not be tru­ly sup­port­ed with any log­i­cal means. But I would love to hear your expla­na­tion on cer­tain points such as:
    … See More
    Jesus does­n’t real­ly apply to us today

    What makes you think Jesus isn’t liv­ing today?

    Why is one the­o­ry of the end of the world so sil­ly but your 4.5 bil­lion not? And why 4.5?

    How do we use the wrong bible? What is the right one and where can we find it?

    You use the term “church” in your last two sen­tences as just one giant organ­ism. Do you con­nect all Chris­tians with the vat­i­can? If so based off what evi­dence and why have you not stud­ied chris­tian­i­ty in greater detail as you claim Rick should do about oth­er religions?

    and final­ly, and most impor­tant­ly, Jesus is much more than a man or a great teacher but a Sav­iour to any who trust Him. 

  54. joe Avatar
    joe

    Oh my gosh it will nev­er eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddddddd

  55. joe Avatar
    joe

    do you real­ly think he’d let ous all die no it might even nev­er hap­pen but not in our life­time ok

  56. Kenny Avatar
    Kenny

    I believe Sept 2015 could be the mid­dle of the sev­en year trib; there is four blood moons in a row and they are all full lunar eclipse and each is on the exact major feast days one bean­ing pass over this has nev­er hap­pen in his­to­ry, there is also four eclipses of the sun in a row on minor Jew­ish feast days.

  57. Jay Avatar
    Jay

    I stum­bled across this web­site after Googling “when will the world end”. I’m also a born-again Chris­t­ian and have the oppor­tu­ni­ty of being among a fam­i­ly that is full of firm believ­ers. This entire thread is very very uplift­ing for a guy like me. I’m 28 years old and always heard my “crazy” ol’ dad talk­ing about the end times and Bib­li­cal prophe­cy. Man should I have lis­tened when I was younger, but then again I was a teen then and already knew everything.…duh! David Frank, I’m not gonna say any­thing mean but I had to GOL (gig­gle out loud) a few times dur­ing, what I will call, his “rant”. I could be much Much more edu­cat­ed on Bible prophe­cy and I see the glob­al events hap­pen­ing, what feels like dai­ly and can’t help but think “there’s no way some­thing hor­ri­ble (or I guess good if its the Tribu­la­tion) isn’t about to hap­pen!”. I look for­ward to hope­ful­ly liv­ing through it myself, I’m not a Dooms­day Prep­per but I’m gear­ing up for some­thing hor­ri­ble to hap­pen with­in the next 10 years. We’ve already seen Can­ni­bal­ism tak­ing place in the US, now there’s West Nile and Bubon­ic (spl?) com­ing from mosqi­tos (spl?), shoot­ings hap­pen­ing every­where, hur­ri­canes, ter­ror­ist attacks, eco­nom­ic melt­down (16? tril­lion!!), tech­nol­o­gy can’t stand still if Our life depend­ed on it. You get the idea! Maybe I’ll keep up with this thread, maybe not…just want­ed to input my 2 cents! God bless!

  58. Mary ann Avatar
    Mary ann

    The end of the world is true or not??????

    1. Rick Beckman Avatar

      So far? Not. For the next few bil­lion years? Most like­ly not.

  59. Celestis Deprirem Avatar
    Celestis Deprirem

    tl;dr
    Every­one who has a bloody brain will still call BS on this, k?

  60. Despina Avatar
    Despina

    There is so much talk about the end of the world, although many brought inter­est­ing points about being veg­e­tar­i­an and oth­er things. , Well lets look and see, yes Jesus may have been a veg­e­tar­i­an but I’m sure at one point he may have eat­en lamb. I can’t tell you that for sure, but what is impor­tant is to remem­ber this:
    My fiancé told me, in Amer­i­ca we learned to eat all this junk food. This is where the snake lurks and sais to eat of the plant of knowl­edge. ? nah more like the oppo­site because with the food of the dead so be it lets call it, it weak­ens us and makes our bod­ies weak and then we can’t think straight and fall into errors and habits hard to break. . We were knowl­edgable with God’s choic­es. As far as my fiancé is con­cerned is that our body is a tem­ple and we must take care of it. Meat is ok once in a blue moon but then again bet­ter not to go near it. we must eat from where God told us to and not from the tree of the dead. Even in Ancient Greece Hades tricked Pene­lope to eat from the plant of the dead so even though she was kid­napped by force, she too like Eve made that dras­tic mis­take. Zeus and his mes­sen­ger could only save part of her for­tune to see her moth­er in the spring and sum­mer, but had to stay with her dark hus­band in hades dur­ing the fall and win­ter. . Now going back to the main top­ic of what is right. Repent­ing means to change and to try to do what God asks us to and this is what I am try­ing to do. Try­ing to destroy my bad habits and i guess this is how the demon ter­ror­izes me by tempt­ing me to bad foods. Despite this, I’m on Gods side and I try as hard as I can to fight it I know God will for­give because i am try­ing. Those who think noth­ing of this and laugh, will be the ones to cry. . One day after a ter­ri­ble breakup with a friend who would not apol­o­gize, I was left alone and felt desert­ed. I had giv­en up try­ing to find some­one on the inter­net, but all of a sud­den I felt a divine pull. Yes God guid­ed me back to my desk to check my mail on eli­gi­ble Greeks and he brought me to this won­der­ful man who I lis­ten to him blind­ly. I know God had set me up to him for he is my angel. An angel I will live with emo­tion­al­ly spir­i­tu­al­ly, bod­i­ly in love and then I prayed hard to God and said please if you take him to par­adise when your ready to take on souls, please take me too. I want to love your angel your won­der­ful gift for its my way to love and thank you for­ev­er for mak­ing me hap­py. I want that eter­nal­ly that you sent to me for­ev­er and i wor­ship you because I know the rea­son you brought him to my life. You saved both our souls. His sis­ter too is so pleased that I’m a believ­er and her son need­ed to be loved too. So yes I agree our body is a tem­ple and we must pre­serve it like God. Now some­one said about the catholic church. no There was one church and as the laws were writ­ten we fol­lowed, how­ev­er some­one came up with the idea of the pope being the leader of the church and we the (today’s ortho­dox) said no. We do not fol­low a human to be the leader of chris­tian­i­ty. Only Jesus is the leader of Chris­tian­i­ty. Then we were sep­a­rat­ed. So the first two sects were ORtho­doxy and catholi­cism. Then after Catholisicm came the protes­tant ref­or­ma­tion. After that The protes­tant split up to many parts and keeps split­ting. So Catholics were not the first.

  61. Despina Avatar
    Despina

    I can’t speak of the end times, I know I have been depressed for the past few years think­ing of it, but ever since I have received the holy spir­it in me, I’m not so afraid because if God takes my soul, I won’t be here to go through the tor­ture of not accept­ing the mark of the beast. Those who have recieved the holy spir­it are those who are on God’s side striv­ing to please him and so he has already judged us.
    If I go, I will not have to wor­ry to starve because if you don’t have it you can’t go shop­ping you can’t go to school or any­thing. Best place to live is in the wilder­ness in the moun­tains. Not fun at all, but your away from the two legged ani­mals who can tor­ture you. How­ev­er I pray I’m one of those who die and go to heav­en then live in anguish. I pray hard that God lets me enjoy the gift he gave me my angel he sent and then takes us both togeth­er. Please pray for us to have that chance to get mar­ried which we are this sum­mer and then if those bad days do come soon­er than we think, then let God just take us.

  62. Elladitsa Avatar
    Elladitsa

    Why can’t peo­ple just let things hap­pen instead of pre­tend­ing they are prophets and per­dict­ing accord­ing to the signs the bible may bring. Why don’t you all just do what God expects you to do and pre­pare your every sin­gle day like it was your last. Pray for your­self to do the right thing, Pray for oth­ers who don’t have the faith, Do on to oth­ers as you would want them to do to you. Fol­low the Com­mand­ments and stop argu­ing about when he’s com­ing, Stop wast­ing time, The dev­il is laugh­ing behind all human’s back because they are so une­d­u­cat­ed. If you want to be saved then get to work and do what your sup­pose to do and what God expects you to do. TALK TALK TALK is not going to get any­one any clos­er to God, and in fact from all the con­fu­sion it will take you away from the core . Also I must add go back to the Ancient Church that is not heretic, and have remained pure unfal­si­fied. Don’t be fooled, Of all doc­trines, I think peo­ple should start read­ing the Evan­ge­lio which is the Greek Ortho­dox bible that is in tact. Its more clear and God wants us in Uni­ty in onc holy catholic and apos­tolic church (not catholic as in the chris­t­ian sect catholic) Catholic by the way means uni­fied in Greek. God intend­ed all to be under one faith and all chris­tians are in sin by being divid­ed. Why ? The Ortho­dox church has been iso­lat­ed and for­got­ten since the Papa­cy took pow­er and some don’t even know about it. I sug­gest instead of wast­ing time fig­ur­ing out when the end is com­ing, Con­cen­trate on why we are sep­a­rat­ed and work a peace amoung Chris­tians. For­get about the lead­ers, some are cor­rupt. We the peo­ple are respon­si­ble for our own souls, Ask God and he will guide you. Now go and watch the “The Ancient Church” on utube to get an intro­duc­to­ry and then vis­it a Greek church or priest to find out more about it. Many non Chris­tians, Athi­ests and Chris­tians of oth­er sects have been attract­ed once they got to know the True Church of God. JESUS WOULD BE VERY HAPPY TO SEE AT LEAST A TRY FROM ALL OTHER DENOMINATIONS!!!!! GOD BE WITH YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!

  63. Despina Avatar
    Despina

    David Frank: I say this, God did­n’t fin­ish his mis­sion only then, he sends angels to us to help us learn about him. God would say to you “:If you knock I’ll open the door” so obvi­ous­ly you must knock. You must pray to him and show Jesus you trust him, by spir­i­tu­al­ly talk­ing to him through your mind. You look for signs and he does talk to you but not phys­i­cal­ly as we do to each oth­er here on earth. Jesus also men­tioned : only by him can you com­menth to the father. Do you know what that means? You have to believe in him to have the key to right­eous­ness to find the right path in your life.
    You must ask for for­give­ness , repent and do all I ask of you. You still have work on my gar­den. This means, God did not allow only those fol­low­ers to go to heav­en. He died for our sins and so it gives believ­ers the chance to make a dif­fer­ence in their lives. If he had only done it for his fol­low­ers, then we would all be going to hell and we would not be saved. Those fol­low­ers , his very own apos­tles which were not even as faith­ful as some of those after his time who did­n’t even meet him and yet believed in him with all their heart. If you are the one who sais I have to see it to believe it, your like the the unbe­liev­er Thomas who asked to see the wounds in Jesus hands when he res­ur­rect­ed. Any­way I said enough, I will just sim­ply pray for all to open their eyes and be saved Amen.
    The state­memt I’m putting here about me being a veg­e­tar­i­an is to make a point about glut­tony. You do know its a sin eh? I’m not 100% veg­e­tar­i­an yet, how­ev­er its sim­ply a very healthy lifestyle I live com­pared to all the garbage fast food serves. Food kills!1 when you cook it you destroy it, when you add oil and cook it, you make it tox­ic so think about it, this is just a glimpse. In all reli­gions or at least the three Judaism, Chris­tian­i­ty and Islam, repeat­ing my ques­tion which is : Isn’t Glut­tony a sin? We are not sup­pose to wor­ry if it tastes good. We eat to live, not live to eat. We must treat our bod­ies as God’s tem­ple so we must try our best. Don’t we want to live longer and health­i­er? Look we all have been taught the wrong way, but we still have time to try to fix it and God will give us cred­it for that. I agree you must respect oth­er reli­gions, and not force your’s on oth­ers. but you can intro­duce your own in a con­ver­sa­tion and just tell them why you believe in your own. Force is the wrong way and God would not appre­ci­ate it, its a fanat­ic behav­ior and a very une­d­u­cat­ed one at that. Many who preach don’t know the bible very well and con­fuse things or say it to the way they want to inter­pret it. this is why many are con­fused. Any­way going back to want to try to con­vert some­one well lets say this : you catch more flies with hon­ey than you do with a fly swap right? Now as for the end, it will come when its to come, PLEASE stop talk­ing about it, it depress­es many peo­ple because they all have dreams and when you tell them its over soon, the chil­dren will say, but I did­n’t grow up and get a chance to get mar­ried and go to school and have kids and be a grand­pa and so on. If it hap­pens it will hap­pen just let it be. God may make it up to those who did­n’t have a chance. He may replen­ish the world once evil is dis­in­te­grat­ed includ­ing the fall­en angel him­self. No more wor­ries no more sin. The world will be per­fect and no more to see killings not even among the ani­mal king­dom. You may see lamb with the wolves in har­mo­ny Deer with lions and dogs and cats not chas­ing or being chased unless they are play­ing. The world to come is a bet­ter world and its one I’m dying to live in and not being hurt and betrayed by friends who sud­den­ly turned sour on me, because they saw me lose weight and gen­er­al­ly being happier.

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Rick Beckman