Belated Obligatory July 4 Post

I have seen Christian blogs celebrating the fourth, so I won’t do that. It’s be done. Rather, I’ll stick the Book and congratulate the nation on yet another anniversary if its rebellion (a sin like unto witchcraft) against its rulers which were to be found in Great Britain.

Like it or not, if you stick to the Book, you cannot help but believe that the people are not fit to rule (the majority is never right, and if they happen to be right, they aren’t being honest), which is what we have in America. Like it or not, if you stick to the Book, you cannot find anyplace where God says it is okay to cast off the leadership over you–whether in family, slavery, employment, or nationality–but this is precisely what the Founding Fathers did.

America got its start with rebellion. Incidentally, so did Satan and the human race. At least the pattern is holding.

Forget the romanticized, noble accounts of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” in the early days of the nation. Where were the Christians crying out that a nation starts on the wrong foot if that foot’s first step is on the limb of rebellion?

And why have Christians since then so easily forgotten that rebellion is a sin, and every July 4, that rebellion is celebrated. A nation gives us a little bit of freedom, and we use it as a license to and endorsement of sin? May it not be so!

I’m posting this a few hours after the fourth to give you a year to think about these things, and so I don’t ruin anyone’s fun. Or maybe it’s because I completely forgot I should blog about the event. Either way, if you are a Christian and you still hold any pretense of being patriotic in any way other than honoring leadership and obeying the law, I implore you to go to the Scriptures and find out what they say about government and the believer’s allegiances.

8 thoughts on “Belated Obligatory July 4 Post

  1. Ben says:

    You, sir, should move to Britain.

    Explain to me Moses and the Exodus. Perhaps “God” also called, in some way, this nation’s founders.

    Either way I think you’re way off base.

  2. Glen says:

    I don’t know my history of the United States as well as I should, but is it not true that the British played a large part in settling America? So in reality the american people of that time rebelled against their own. As far as Moses goes, God’s people were under forced slavery and were released. If we want to compare Moses let’s compare the Civil War.

  3. Ben Gray says:

    I see your point. And I think you’re correct in your facts and your logic for the most part. However, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that rebellion is always sin. That just doesn’t jive with my understanding of Theology.

  4. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    Ben (commenter #1, not #3): Why should I move to Britain? The only nation I’m happy to be a part of without finding problems with its leadership is the Kingdom of God. I’m not dismayed enough with America to run away. It’d be too much trouble and wouldn’t really solve anything, after all.

    Moses’ leading of the Israelites out of Egypt was God’s calling of a physical nation. He created the nation of Israel. It was His nation. In separating Moses and the rest of the Israelites out of Egypt, God was correcting a mistake–the enslavement and captivity of a nation which was always meant to be called out and physically separate (hence the strict demands of the Law, involving clothing type and farming methods and more).

    This cannot be compared to a nation separating itself out from another nation over matters of taxation or anything else; it also cannot be said that God called the Founding Fathers to do what they did because God never spoke positively of people-rule.

    I also would caution that thinking God called the Founding Fathers to do what they did comes dangerously close to adding to His word. God acts by revealing what He’ll do to His prophets first, and they make no mention of America, yet they firmly mentioned everything God has been actually doing–saving souls, preserving souls, chastening wayward children, etc., etc.

    Romans 13:1-7 ends the debate as far as I’m concerned. The rulers of the colonies were in England. They had a right to tax the colonies, and they were under no biblical obligation to have colonial representation.

    Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. (NKJV)

  5. Ben says:

    Jeff Adams writes:

    If one were to accept the argument that Scripture demands unquestioning submission to the state, how could anyone fault those who obeyed orders to carry out atrocities (such as following brutal orders from Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.)? From a worldly perspective, the Nuremburg trials refute the idea of total submission to the state, and reject the concept of ‘I was just following orders.’ In truth, as Christians we are called to follow Godly government as long as it is just that: Godly, and doesn’t run counter to the laws of God. If a government starts to act in ways that put a believer in conflict between what God calls us to do and what the government calls us to do, then a believer has to submit to the Supreme authority rather than to the flawed earthly authority of a man-made government.

    Enter the Puritans, and other “factions”, which helped bring this country into existence in Jamestown and Boston.

    Adam goes on to say:

    … the founders were acting in keeping with Romans 13:1-7 by rebelling against a government that was dishonoring God in how it was dealing with its colonial subjects. We, as Christians, would be acting in accordance with Romans 13:1-7 if we rebelled against a government that violates our written laws (the Constitution), promotes immorality (legalization of pornography, homosexuality, no-fault divorce, same-sex marriage, prostitution, etc.), and attempted to subvert our Christian faith (such as banning public displays of crosses, nativity scenes, the Ten Commandments, public prayer, denied our free exercise of our faith, etc.).

    Read the whole article: http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/04/11/05/adams.htm

  6. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    Sadly, Jeff Adams is entirely mistaken. I don’t advocate unquestioning authority; I don’t believe any Christian should obey if obedience leads to sin.

    However, there is nothing in the Bible which allows for the casting off of a government because it is “ungodly.”

    Did Paul, when he appeared before Roman rulers, seek to change their minds about the rampant persecution of the church? No! He simply shared the gospel message.

    The government of England was not forcing Christians in America to sin, so where’s the big complaint? The issue was over money. Don’t tax me if I can’t be represented! I want more control over how much I have to give you! I love my money too much to let you decide!

    The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil, including rebellion against the government.

  7. Rick Beckman says:
    Student of the sciences, the religions, the science fictions, and the fantasies… But mostly I’m just trying to find my groove in this big, crazy world.

    Montoya: How far does one take it, though? Scripture never, ever, ever tells a Christian to flee persecution. James clears that matter up very nicely by saying when our faith is tested and we fall into trials, we should count it all joy. Not just some joy. Not just, “I’ll be happy when it’s over,” but ALL joy. Jesus said we are blessed, or happy, when men persecute us or use us. There is laid up in Heaven special rewards for those who endure persecution faithfully.

    If you can provide me an example of a Christian in the Bible saying, “I don’t like Rome. I’m marking out a territory and declaring it Christianland and I’m going to let the people rule ’cause we all know that’s a good idea,” then I will love America with all my heart.

    God calls husbands or wives to remain even with the worst spouse and to love them faithfully.
    God calls slaves to lovingly submit to their masters.
    God calls Christians to be in submission to the authority over them.

    There is no leeway for rebellion against any master, unless obeying that master would cause us to disobey the Lord. And a Christian cannot rebel against Satan; he is no longer any authority over us.

    I’m not saying you can’t leave the country. That isn’t rebellion; that’s an allowable thing. But if a country has a claim on land, it is rebellion to say, “No, now this land is Christianland, and if you don’t like it, send some soldiers over and we’ll kill them.” Of course, war goes right along with the New Testament principle of living peaceably with all men, but when it comes to patriotism, the Book takes a back seat (or is tossed out the window altogether, in many cases).

    Alicia: You’re right, there isn’t really anything wrong with celebrating certain days. And I will never judge someone for doing so, as the Scriptures demand. But I only caution Christians to be educated about what they are celebrating. Birthdays are easy; you celebrate your birth. Thanksgiving celebrates, well, being thankful, which is of course biblical. Christmas and Easter I won’t even go into ’cause I’d be here far too long. And the Fourth of July celebrates a rebellion. It cannot be sugarcoated unless it is misunderstood. Democracy–the rule of the people–is the fruit of that rebellion, and once people rule, God is no longer needed except as a token (“God bless America,” “In God we trust,” “One nation under God,” and other cute little non-biblical expressions of worship of the supposed biblical God).

    Sadly, this same democracy has invaded many churches, as overseers are voted for by the congregation rather than appointed by evangelists. Seriously, what kind of rule is it when you get to pick your ruler? Hmm, I want this or that to be allowed and this banned, so let’s vote for this guy over here. No problem obeying him. Yes-sir-ee.

  8. Montoya says:

    Rebellion against God is a sin, and rebellion against your parents is a sin, but rebellion against the devil is not. If the people who came to America were fleeing from religious persecution, then it was not a sin. I agree our country did not start out on the right foot but this is not the reason. And no, I don’t celebrate July 4th.

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